78 Terra No Start

[LeftofLucky]

Hey guys. I've got a 78 terra, 4-speed manual, 4wd with a 304. The other morning I hopped in, hit the key and there was a quick "click" then the dome light went out and the engine wouldn't turn over.

I figured maybe it was the starter, so I replaced it, but the same business was happening. I jumped the starter and it turns over just fine.

Then I read maybe the bulkhead connector was corroded, so I pulled it, cleaned it, put some dielectric grease on it and still nothing. Thing is, now I don't even get the dome light to come on.

This is the first time this truck has really let me down, and of course it happens when I actually need it. Any ideas or suggestions would be great.

 

[RobertC]

I would first check the battery cables -- particularly the ground. Though it May not be the problem since you state you "jumped" the starter (in the vehicle, I assume).

I had this problem (same symptom) in another vehicle -- the battery quick disconnnect failed. I did not try to jump the starter, but I rebuilt it -- no luck. Then, I replaced the battery even though it showed the correct voltage. Replaced the battery ground cable and all was well -- hours / "days" later....

I am sure michael mayben will list the further voltage checks -- which wires / coil should have which voltage values. I do not remember / know the correct values.

You can "troll" thru old posts and I think you will find some of the specs -- you might also search on ignition switch and see if anything comes up.

 

[Michael Mayben]

Classic condition of the primary bulkhead connector syndrome as you've already surmised. Are you certain that there was no arcing/corrosion/melting exhibited in either the male or female pins in the connector on the heavy gauge "light blue" wire run inside the connector? I never seen one that did not exhibit some form of deterioration, no matter how slight.

Also, look under the dash on the back of the connector and look for that same wire to be "overheated". That is the run that feeds the ammeter, which then feeds the fuse panel for current distribution.

That run is protected by a fusible link "most" of the time which May not be shown in the service manual schematic. The link itself May "look" ok but is "open" internally which is the way they are supposed to fail for circuit protection.

This is a shot of failed sii fusible link, but not in the "normal" manner, this is the factory connection between the link and the wire that overheated and failed, but the link itself did not go open. This a '74 sii/304 that was a near virgin when we started working with it, it had not been keeping the battery charged. The owner, mattg around here, did a dual battery install and we found this issue at the same time. Also the "resistor wire" for the ignition feed was toast also so that was upgraded.

Matt was very fortunate that this rig had not gone up in flames before he caught this.

 

[Michael Mayben]

And here's a shot of the actual failure point. Only visible sign of a problem was a slight discoloration I noticed at the "splice" and I knew that was an issue because of 40+ years of dealing with this kinda stuff and knew what to look for. Damage is not always visible.

If we had not eyeballed this, then the next step would be to use either a test light or a dc voltmeter and trace out the current path using a schematic...we didn't do that as it was obvious where the problem originated. Once we repaired the system and completed the dual battery setup with switching, then each circuit was verified for proper operation and the alternator actually charged the battery for the first time in ages! You should do the same.

But as Robert mentioned verify the condition and continuity of the battery cables, the ground path, and the battery itself. If the "feed" to the ammeter and then fuse panel is faulty in some manner, then none of then "loads" that pull from the fuse panel will be "hot" either.

 

[Michael Mayben]

And here's one of the worst examples of the same thing I've ever seen, kimme's "roxanne" sii that a po has really butchered and tried to bypass a fried fusible link.

And...after we fixed this, as she was driving up the driveway, it caught fire under the hood. The resistor wire for the ignition feed which the po had buried in that mess actually ignited and torched the repair work we'd just done...so we did it all over again and replaced the resistor wire in a proper fashion.

The only way to properly deal with shit like this is gut it out and start from scratch with new wiring.

 

[LeftofLucky]

Thanks for all the great responses. Turns out you were right, robertc. After going in and recleaning the bulkhead connector and undoing the factory wire loom to look for shorts, I realized if I worked the positive battery cable back and forth I would get power inside the vehicle.

Thirty bucks later (new looms, positive and negative cables) and she's running like a top. It's a sad feeling when your most reliable vehicle decides to take a nap, so I'm glad it's back in service.

Thanks again!

 

[Michael Mayben]

One last example, this is a virgin, unmolested bulkhead connector onna '73 sii. Notice the red fusible link spliced to the 10 gauge blue "feed". Even the factory tiewrap is in place.

The owner claimed to never have had any issues with this electrically-speaking. But then...he also claimed the battery would not stay charged if he didn't drive it every day!

Problem??? While the ammeter did exhibit a "slight" charge mode under load, my instrumentation told me it was not charging per spec. Diagnosis?

The bulkhead connector was shit inside! On the verge of going up in flames! I eliminated the male/female disconnect for that circuit, spliced in a new fusible link that looked "factory", and fed the new splice inside the the connector and with plenty slack on the inside. That way it still looks virgin, but is mechanically sound!

The bulkhead connectors that ihc used on this stuff were the absolute worst and cheeeepest crap that they could find. That holds for all Scout 80/Scout 800, and Scout II apps, the pickalls and medium duty stuff was marginally better.

 

[RobertC]

Leftoflucky -- glad your terra is back on the raod.

Michael -- thanks for posting all the great info / pictures -- that I hope I never have to use for my t/a.

 

[Michael Mayben]

Another successful Saturday on sumbody's part!

Robert...I can't believe ya ain't gone through meltdown with yore virgin. But then, since pickalls are marginally better quality in the wiring dept., maybe ya just ain't enjoyed the experience ....yet?????

Handling the bulkhead connectors on sii should be on anyone's short list of must-dos. Those are totally worthless "assembly aids" and serve only one purpose...enhance the uaw lifestyle on the assembly line...30+ years ago.

 

[Michael Dimock]

Well Mike, not all Scout 80's had this problem as 61/62's didn't have a bulkhead connector. how lucky was I as it made rewiring a snap with no bulkhead connector issues to worry about!

 

[RobertC]

No, I haven't "enjoyed" the experience yet. And, don't you jinx me!!!

and, even though I wired the power for my driving / fog lights from the fuse block by the glovebox (in 1973).

I did not even know there was such a thing as "bulkhead connector experience" until I started reading on the these forums.

A few years ago, my sf bay area mechanic decided that the engine compartment should be steam cleaned -- I have only had the valve cover gaskets replaced once... In 35 years...

The person who did it was not the brightest person around -- he did not know the difference from oil / road grime and ziebart material.

So, he "cleaned" most of the ziebart material off the firewall

I am surprised he did not "blow" the bulkhead connectors apart!!!

Take care....