MFSchreeder
New member
Hello everybody,
[backstory, skip ahead for current problem]
I want to start by introducing myself as a first-time poster and the (almost) original owner of a 1977 IH SSII with a 345 v8. My father owned it since it was brand new, bought it in huntsville, al and drove it until the day my oldest bro turned 16. Both older brothers knew even less about it than he did. He’s no slouch at all and knows a lot about it, but the act of working on the truck just wasn’t a part of the deal. There were a number of hands on it whose works May never be known because no one paid attention as long as it would start in the morning. When I inherited it at 16 like the others, I went to work repairing the rust in the body and cab etc but left the engine work to the shops. I had to leave it behind during college but managed to get my Dad to sign over the deed afterwards since he was tired of paying for repairs and was threatening to sell.
After sitting for those years away, the Scout and I got to spend a lot of qt together and she was in bad shape. I tried all kinds of options other than learning about the carb, including a round of sea-foam with a 30 minute minimum drive to be sure it didn’t destroy all the seals, stabil at every fill up and in the spare tank, a (lucky?) tune up with new rotor button, cap, plugs and cables. I did my best to put it all back just like I found it, made sure my timing order was correct starting at #8, and let her come back to life big time. It hadn’t run so well since before I ever drove it, of that I am certain.
Although it was better than I had known it, I still could tell it was having problems with the fuel distribution. The feel and sounds of flooding were evident. At this point in time (3 years ago) I began looking for someone who could help but so many shops turned me away that I just took the first one up who said he would try to rebuild the carb. I get it back and the guy says to me, “it’s still not right.” after all this time and after working on all sorts of other problems, I finally decided it was high time to learn the carb.
[discovery of various problems]
So, after a week of extensive research on all of these forums, I have been trying to understand my machine. Once I thought I had a grasp of it the concepts, I went about with preparations.
vacuum:
• as you can see from the pic from above, the gasket for the top of the air horn is held together with electrical tape.
• the tube meant to go to the vacuum solenoid valve was plugged at it’s end (~1ft long)
• the egr was connected properly to its connector, but the next line from that connector that should have led to manifold vacuum was instead plugged into the dashpot.
• the two open connections at the solenoid valve were occupied by the washer fluid tubes!! Haha
• lady luck had the line to both the distributor and the choke pull in place – undoubtedly the only reason it would start
• the line meant to go to the air temperature sensor looped around to the passenger-side nipple, closing the system while still weakening the vacuum through the rubber lines no doubt.
• nothing plugged into the air temperature sensor intake. Side question, which side is the intake for when I replace the sensor and put it back together? The valve in the cleaner works great still and I figure I May as well get that hooked back up when this is said and done.
I switched the plugged line over to the t-connector that should lead to the air cleaner so it would stay plugged. Then I connected everything else the way it should have been. I figure even if the vacuum solenoid valve isn’t functional it shouldn’t affect the ability to spec and tune the thing.
carb issues, aside from giant vacuum leaks:
• I called the shop who rebuilt it and their records showed that there were no replacement bodies or airhorns ordered, just a carb kit listed as 15815a. Looking into this, I discovered he rebuilt the carb with a kit meant for a 1978-78 404 6.6l, 537 8.8l. No wonder it still wasn’t right.
• while making a few peripheral checks, I found that the bimetal spring for the (divorced?) choke was not in place and exerting no closing force on the choke assembly.
• there was a tiny piece of what used to be the hic valve left under the bimetal piece there.
• the connector for the high idle speed cam was on backwards, such that the arm overlaid the cam instead of being in place closer to the body. This would explain why it was always popping off!
• jet streams look solid, strong and even upon throttle depression.
I disassembled the choke coil spring and reassembled it so the end was in place and could exert force. I adjusted the height per service manual. I also ordered a low-rent rebuild kit just so I could get a cork gasket for the hic so that I can get some numbers on the vacuum etc.
Which carb is it?? Is the soft-top safari Scout II the monster and IH the mad scientist?? And what’s the best solution here?
• r 7309 a 465663 c91 0917 - 2210 per list#
• airhorn – looks to be 2245 by the pictures. Giveaway is the absence of a lever for a bowl vent that is not drilled.
• main body– seem to be 2210c as per oem stamps
• throttle body – unsure of the vacuum nipple size as it is hard to get to, but the assuming the same size as the nipple to the distributor looks to be 3/16” => 2245
• high idle speed cam – yellow – looks to be for 2245 by color and it actually looks to me like it only has 4 steps total. The steps are blunted badly. Cam is not really in good shape.
Distribtor: stamp says 461270 c91
I am posting my pictures this morning and sending in a round of specs Thursday when I get back from work and pick up the temp rebuild kit with the hic gasket. That way you brighter men can get to thinking about this before I spec it out.
But I plan on getting vacuum readings first for a baseline, then ignition specs, adjusting ignition to advised specs, measuring vacuum again and adjusting idles as needed.
Any and all advice is welcome. A week ago I didn’t know the high idle from the curb idle screw, what a cam was or any other carb part, so I figure I’ve done a fair amount so far and could use a leg up on some of the rest. Assuming I get good numbers and the response is good, I’m wondering if I should re-build it or not. Or can I assume the numbers will suck!? Haha
thanks in advance
[backstory, skip ahead for current problem]
I want to start by introducing myself as a first-time poster and the (almost) original owner of a 1977 IH SSII with a 345 v8. My father owned it since it was brand new, bought it in huntsville, al and drove it until the day my oldest bro turned 16. Both older brothers knew even less about it than he did. He’s no slouch at all and knows a lot about it, but the act of working on the truck just wasn’t a part of the deal. There were a number of hands on it whose works May never be known because no one paid attention as long as it would start in the morning. When I inherited it at 16 like the others, I went to work repairing the rust in the body and cab etc but left the engine work to the shops. I had to leave it behind during college but managed to get my Dad to sign over the deed afterwards since he was tired of paying for repairs and was threatening to sell.
After sitting for those years away, the Scout and I got to spend a lot of qt together and she was in bad shape. I tried all kinds of options other than learning about the carb, including a round of sea-foam with a 30 minute minimum drive to be sure it didn’t destroy all the seals, stabil at every fill up and in the spare tank, a (lucky?) tune up with new rotor button, cap, plugs and cables. I did my best to put it all back just like I found it, made sure my timing order was correct starting at #8, and let her come back to life big time. It hadn’t run so well since before I ever drove it, of that I am certain.
Although it was better than I had known it, I still could tell it was having problems with the fuel distribution. The feel and sounds of flooding were evident. At this point in time (3 years ago) I began looking for someone who could help but so many shops turned me away that I just took the first one up who said he would try to rebuild the carb. I get it back and the guy says to me, “it’s still not right.” after all this time and after working on all sorts of other problems, I finally decided it was high time to learn the carb.
[discovery of various problems]
So, after a week of extensive research on all of these forums, I have been trying to understand my machine. Once I thought I had a grasp of it the concepts, I went about with preparations.
vacuum:
• as you can see from the pic from above, the gasket for the top of the air horn is held together with electrical tape.
• the tube meant to go to the vacuum solenoid valve was plugged at it’s end (~1ft long)
• the egr was connected properly to its connector, but the next line from that connector that should have led to manifold vacuum was instead plugged into the dashpot.
• the two open connections at the solenoid valve were occupied by the washer fluid tubes!! Haha
• lady luck had the line to both the distributor and the choke pull in place – undoubtedly the only reason it would start
• the line meant to go to the air temperature sensor looped around to the passenger-side nipple, closing the system while still weakening the vacuum through the rubber lines no doubt.
• nothing plugged into the air temperature sensor intake. Side question, which side is the intake for when I replace the sensor and put it back together? The valve in the cleaner works great still and I figure I May as well get that hooked back up when this is said and done.
I switched the plugged line over to the t-connector that should lead to the air cleaner so it would stay plugged. Then I connected everything else the way it should have been. I figure even if the vacuum solenoid valve isn’t functional it shouldn’t affect the ability to spec and tune the thing.
carb issues, aside from giant vacuum leaks:
• I called the shop who rebuilt it and their records showed that there were no replacement bodies or airhorns ordered, just a carb kit listed as 15815a. Looking into this, I discovered he rebuilt the carb with a kit meant for a 1978-78 404 6.6l, 537 8.8l. No wonder it still wasn’t right.
• while making a few peripheral checks, I found that the bimetal spring for the (divorced?) choke was not in place and exerting no closing force on the choke assembly.
• there was a tiny piece of what used to be the hic valve left under the bimetal piece there.
• the connector for the high idle speed cam was on backwards, such that the arm overlaid the cam instead of being in place closer to the body. This would explain why it was always popping off!
• jet streams look solid, strong and even upon throttle depression.
I disassembled the choke coil spring and reassembled it so the end was in place and could exert force. I adjusted the height per service manual. I also ordered a low-rent rebuild kit just so I could get a cork gasket for the hic so that I can get some numbers on the vacuum etc.
Which carb is it?? Is the soft-top safari Scout II the monster and IH the mad scientist?? And what’s the best solution here?
• r 7309 a 465663 c91 0917 - 2210 per list#
• airhorn – looks to be 2245 by the pictures. Giveaway is the absence of a lever for a bowl vent that is not drilled.
• main body– seem to be 2210c as per oem stamps
• throttle body – unsure of the vacuum nipple size as it is hard to get to, but the assuming the same size as the nipple to the distributor looks to be 3/16” => 2245
• high idle speed cam – yellow – looks to be for 2245 by color and it actually looks to me like it only has 4 steps total. The steps are blunted badly. Cam is not really in good shape.
Distribtor: stamp says 461270 c91
I am posting my pictures this morning and sending in a round of specs Thursday when I get back from work and pick up the temp rebuild kit with the hic gasket. That way you brighter men can get to thinking about this before I spec it out.
But I plan on getting vacuum readings first for a baseline, then ignition specs, adjusting ignition to advised specs, measuring vacuum again and adjusting idles as needed.
Any and all advice is welcome. A week ago I didn’t know the high idle from the curb idle screw, what a cam was or any other carb part, so I figure I’ve done a fair amount so far and could use a leg up on some of the rest. Assuming I get good numbers and the response is good, I’m wondering if I should re-build it or not. Or can I assume the numbers will suck!? Haha
thanks in advance
