67 304 to 82 T5 out of a Cherokee

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wildbill99

New member
Okay here is my situation. I am the proud 3rd generation owner of a 67 1100b shortbed stepside 2x4 pickup with a 304 and a granny low 4 speed (not sure which one it is) and a 4x4 82 cherokee (fsj) with a 258 and a t5. The IH is retired from working and will be just a cruiser possible daily driver and the Jeep will be a trail rig. The problem I have is that the trans in my rigs would be more useful in the other vehicle. Regardless of which tranny is in the beast (my beloved IH) im pretty sure there are bells that will work cus they have all probably been behind the 258 at one time or another. So I guess my first question is is it possible to without major money to put the t5 behind the 304 and second could I just get the tail shaft off a 80's mustang or s-10 too make it 2wd or would I be money ahead getting a different od trans. If I would be money ahead with a different trans what would be my options. Thanks
 
I'm no tranny expert and there are a couple on this board who are, so you'll want to wait for their opinions. I highly doubt the t5 could be adapted to an IH engine bell pattern, at least not without significant cost. That transmission also has a reputation for being kind of weak. I don't know how well it would hold up in a heavier vehicle behind a more powerful engine. IH did offer at least one 5 speed transmission that could be mated to the sv engine line. While perhaps not super common, they are out there. That would be a far better option to achieve an extra gear in your truck if that's something you've gotta have.
 
Not hardly a suitable transmission for any IH pickup or other fullsize rig! I'd not trust one to hold up to typical pickup-type use.

On top of that, the IH stuff uses a completely specialized clutch release and bellhousing system intended for use with true truck transmissions such the bw t18, t98, t36, etc.

No amc-pattern bellhousing will bolt to any ihc-produced engine. One point...the starters are mounted totally on different sides! The IH-version transmissions all have a specialized length/diameter/spline count to the input shaft that is unique.

The ihc truck transmissions are totally bulletproof, why re-invent the wheel?
 
I understand the weakness of the t5 but I like how it drives on the street which is were it should be. I don't need my IH for any "typical truck type" use other then just driving. It is retired that little truck has done more work and hauled heavier loads then most one ton trucks so now that it's mine and I have my cummins for the haulin and towin I'm just going to drive it and enjoy the looks. I want a transmission that is fun to drive and the 4spd that is in it now isn't fun do drive because there is only 3 gears that are need for daily driving. The 4spd that is in the truck now will be going into my fsj because the t5's 1st gear is a joke for offroading and the granny low in the IH would be perfect. That leaves me with a vacant t5 and a truck without a trans. The gearing of the t5 is perfect for what I want in my truck so if it could be converted to 2wd and bolted up to the 304 without a lot of expense that would be awesome if not. Does anyone know of any other od manuals with a 1st gear in the higher 5;1 lower 4;1 that could or has worked. Thanks
 
wildbill99 said:
I understand the weakness of the t5 but I like how it drives on the street which is were it should be. I don't need my IH for any "typical truck type" use other then just driving. It is retired that little truck has done more work and hauled heavier loads then most one ton trucks so now that it's mine and I have my cummins for the haulin and towin I'm just going to drive it and enjoy the looks. I want a transmission that is fun to drive and the 4spd that is in it now isn't fun do drive because there is only 3 gears that are need for daily driving. The 4spd that is in the truck now will be going into my fsj because the t5's 1st gear is a joke for offroading and the granny low in the IH would be perfect. That leaves me with a vacant t5 and a truck without a trans. The gearing of the t5 is perfect for what I want in my truck so if it could be converted to 2wd and bolted up to the 304 without a lot of expense that would be awesome if not. Does anyone know of any other od manuals with a 1st gear in the higher 5;1 lower 4;1 that could or has worked. Thanks
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I don't know much but I don't know how you are going to get a IH 4 speed behind your amc 258.

IH transmissions are "unique" to IH -- afaik, the bolt patterns are different - trans to bell housing and bell housing to engine.

The IH 4 speed is not the "same" as a Ford 4 speed - even though they May have the "same name".

Maybe someone makes a sae adapter that would allow you to bolt the IH 4 speed to your amc, but I doubt it. And, I doubt there is an adapter to mount an IH transmission to a amc bell housing.

As mm states, the input shafts are different and the starter is mounted on the opposite side of the engine.

As far as 5 speed od --

IH offered a 5 speed direct and a 5 speed od trans on full sizes. Problem is finding a od version. You also need the IH 5 speed bell housing as the bell housing is unique to the 5 speeds (they are large truck transmissions.).

IH Parts America sells an adapter kit to bolt a nv4500 to a sv v8 engine.

Neither option is what I would call cheap...
 
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robertc said:
I don't know much but I don't know how you are going to get a IH 4 speed behind your amc 258.

IH transmissions are "unique" to IH -- afaik, the bolt patterns are different - trans to bell housing and bell housing to engine.

The IH 4 speed is not the "same" as a Ford 4 speed - even though they May have the "same name".

Maybe someone makes a sae adapter that would allow you to bolt the IH 4 speed to your amc, but I doubt it. And, I doubt there is an adapter to mount an IH transmission to a amc bell housing.

As mm states, the input shafts are different and the starter is mounted on the opposite side of the engine.

As far as 5 speed od --

IH offered a 5 speed direct and a 5 speed od trans on full sizes. Problem is finding a od version. You also need the IH 5 speed bell housing as the bell housing is unique to the 5 speeds (they are large truck transmissions.).

IH Parts America sells an adapter kit to bolt a nv4500 to a sv v8 engine.

Neither option is what I would call cheap...
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So if I'm understanding this right borg-warner had to make a different bolt pattern for just International. That just seems like it would have cost IH a lot more money then using one that was already currently in production. Now what about the 258's that were in the scouts. They came with t19's and as far as I have found never even had a t5 in them. Are they Jeep trannies or IH.
 
wildbill99 said:
so if I'm understanding this right borg-warner had to make a different bolt pattern for just International. That just seems like it would have cost IH a lot more money then using one that was already currently in production. Now what about the 258's that were in the scouts. They came with t19's and as far as I have found never even had a t5 in them. Are they Jeep trannies or IH.
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Go to the novak adapters web site and read about transmissions (t-18, t-19) in their knowledge section...

From what I read, they do not recommend putting a IH trans in a Jeep...
 
wildbill99 said:
so if I'm understanding this right borg-warner had to make a different bolt pattern for just International. That just seems like it would have cost IH a lot more money then using one that was already currently in production. Now what about the 258's that were in the scouts. They came with t19's and as far as I have found never even had a t5 in them. Are they Jeep trannies or IH.
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Your reasoning regarding the chain of supply of items such as transmissions, etc. For the oem production is flawed dude. That ain't how it works. Same as Ford transmissions snouts don't fit chrysler, etc., saginaws don't fit ramblers, np don't fit ihc bells, etc.

We are not discussing the mounting pattern of the trans at the bellhousing, we are discussing the input shaft length (stickout), the input shaft diameter, the input shaft spline segment, and the input shaft pilot diameter and position. The mounting pattern of the trans to the bell is a minor consideration, many bellhousings and transmissions have multiple patterns that can be utilized as the customer spec'd the transmission they desired.

This is not how willys/rambler/amc/Jeep produced vehicles, they had very few powertrain options and they were produced in the same mode as passenger cars, they were not "spec'd" such as every ihc-produced vehicle was.

Ihc produced trucks...with transmissions engineered for the application, not just pick any old unit off the shelf that was cheep. That is why they rarely fail due to overload as they are matched to the vehicle for which they are spec'd. In fact, ihc produced their own transmissions in-house based upon clark patterns for some versions.

Any particular basic transmission model number can have hundreds of variations in specification, they are engineered for each application and not some afterthought.

A borg warner t19 is not a "Jeep" transmission, just like it's not a "Scout II" transmission. It's a bw t-19 manufactured to the specifications provided by the oem for which the transmission is intended. A rambler/amc/Jeep 258 is only one particular engine and has nothing in common with any ihc-produced engine other than it burns gasoline. It uses it's own particular pattern transmission depending upon model, engine power characteristics, vehicle gvwr rating, and final drive ratio(s). Internal gear ratios are juggled between variations in order to meet the engineering criteria.

"sae-pattern" bellhousing adapters are used primarily in diesel and industrial engine applications for prime movers and trucks. The Nissan diesel-powered sii was unique in that it was mated with an existing transmission design in order to keep the development costs down as ihc tested the waters for diesel-powered, light duty vehicles during the first diesel-powered craze in the late 70's. That transmission was never truly engineered for the power characteristics of the Nissan sd motors.
 
Okay so if I want a od trans my real only option is the t34 correct. From what I have read that really isn't an option for me either due to them being a wide ratio gear box. So thus ends this line of thought and I will take the new one in a different post. Thanks for the info.
 
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