392 starter cranking speed, oil smoke, compression?

Wow. Can't wait to hear what Robert k and mayben have to say about these pics. Those look just like a brothers of the older welded-style rockers, only with the adustment feature. Very cool. Wish we could still source those....
And as far as sourcing solid lifters, I don't think anyone on this forum has ever seen them before. Like I said, we'll have to wait and hear from the wizard.
Great info though!
 
What about putting in hydraulic lifters?
Sealed power ht855 or trw vl32?
Ok or not?
Is the bottom of the lifter any different convexivity?
What about adding zinc to the oil. I read today sm oil needs more zinc for non roller cams?
 
I was reading on some diffs between solid and hydraulic grinds.
Typically the solid ramps up the lifters more quickly.
But, it all depends on the way it was ground.
This might mean the hydraulic lifters on an agrresive ramp grind dont respond as well and affects timing and duration?
Actually if true, I think it might affect high speed engine operation worse than slower engine speeds.

http://hotrod.automotive.com/81342/hrdp-0510-solid-rollers-on-hydraulic-cams/hydraulic-lifters.html
An interesting read from hotrod on running hydraulic on solid cams
cheaters have been known to run hydraulic lifters on a solid profile. Because they have no quiet lash ramps, solids make for better race profiles. If you take hydraulic lifters and put them on a solid profile, they generally run better than they would on a roughly equivalent hydraulic profile, generating more area under the curve. Hydraulic cams in general are quicker in low-lift, low-rpm, high-endurance applications. Race motors don't care about vacuum and throttle response; they care about area and rpm. Putting hydraulic lifters on a solid grind raises the rpm points at which peak power and torque occur compared to using solid lifters on the same solid cam. However, the actual power and torque peak numbers at the higher rpm points will be lower using hydraulic lifters. That's because the hydraulic lifters installed on the solid cam are slower off the seat, even though they develop more overall duration. Effectively, the hydraulic lifters installed on a solid grind act like a bigger (but slower) cam with very little increase in flow capacity (no more air, but more time to breathe). In terms of numbers, this means a 249-degree-duration (at 0.050-lift) feels like a 255-degree cam.
Click to expand...
 
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dealbreaker74 said:
wow. Can't wait to hear what Robert k and mayben have to say about these pics. Those look just like a brothers of the older welded-style rockers, only with the adustment feature. Very cool. Wish we could still source those....
And as far as sourcing solid lifters, I don't think anyone on this forum has ever seen them before. Like I said, we'll have to wait and hear from the wizard.
Great info though!
Click to expand...

That is how you make them if non are availible. Got a couple laying around that I made as a test just never bought the adjusters. With the lack of solid lifters didn't seem like a feasable option. Altough it would not be tough to make a solid out of a hydraulic. Btdt.
 
It is all together and working great, good oil flow to the valve train also. Starts right up and no smoke at all.
Compression numbers all range from 120 to 130, cold right after I put it together before it had a chance to run.
I chose chevron delo 15w-40 le. It has a good amount of zinc, phosp, moly and boron according to several uoa and bitog web site.
Also, I set the valves .oo4 greater clearance cold than what they say hot. I think it is too loose anyway. A hot adjustment, not keen on burning myself slaving over a hot motor setting the valves.


I wonder now how they made the distributors turn cw on both motors.
The motors have camshaft gears not timing chains and have another inner gear to drive the pump and alternator.
On port motor cam turns cw, starboard camshaft I assume, turns ccw, although I did not take that side apart to look and see.

Is it possible the camshaft distributor drive gear could have a reverse spiral cut helix to make the distributor spin cw ?
Here is pics of the camshaft gears on the port side.
 

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From what I've read elsewhere both are standard rotation engines and the difference is in the gear boxes. Watch the flywheels while someone shuts the engines down, as they coast to a stop you should be able to tell if the are both standard rotation or 1 standard and 1 reverse.
 
sdowney717 said:
also, I set the valves .oo4 greater clearance cold than what they say hot. I think it is too loose anyway. A hot adjustment, not keen on burning myself slaving over a hot motor setting the valves.

Is it possible the camshaft distributor drive gear could have a reverse spiral cut helix to make the distributor spin cw ?
Here is pics of the camshaft gears on the port side.
Click to expand...


Would think setting at hot spec while cold would be ok. The lash usually loosens up on an all iron engine especially on the intake. Although the exhaust will have a tighter while running clearance by the time you get it apart the lash will have gone back larger.


Reverse helix on both the gear mates is the only way to keep the dizzy going the correct direction and turn the cam the opposite direction and a common practice on marine reverse rotation engines.

Now days the engines all turn the same standard direction for the most part (except for some larger format marine diesels) but the prop shafts are reversed through the transmission.
 
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Oh yes they absolutely are reverse rotation motors.
The velvet drive 71 - 72 series cant reverse rotate the props full time due to internal design, when in reverse, the velvet drive uses a bushing plus I thing the gear ratio changes in reverse mode which would wear out in full time use. It is just the way it was done.
rotation guide
velvet drive - marine | products

Operating any of the above transmissions in reverse to obtain forward boat motion will severely
damage the transmission. The reverse gear is not made to handle higher than idle rpm. The shift
on the transmission must be toward engine when boat is moving forward.
Click to expand...

They dont mention the cr-2 which can go either way on the output. I think it was discontinued in favor of the 5000 series.
http://www.tadiesels.com/borg_warner-cr2.html
 
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would think setting at hot spec while cold would be ok. The lash usually loosens up on an all iron engine especially on the intake. Although the exhaust will have a tighter while running clearance by the time you get it apart the lash will have gone back larger.
Click to expand...

Yes, I might redo this after I think about it. Exhaust stems would lengthen more than intakes since they get hotter.

What do the Chevy 350 guys set lashes to?
Would it not be similar?
All I can think is IH did not want these valves to ever float open.
If you run the motor hard, it will heat up more and lash would tighten up more I would think. Boat can put the motor under a lot more strain than a car or truck.
You do hear the valves with the loose lashes.

Apparently looser than what mine is.
.024 for intake and .030 for exhaust hot
Click to expand...
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-...1972-solid-lifter-valve-lash-adjustments.html

Plus a discussion on cold lash
http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170882
 
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The lash setting for a solid lifter profile has nothing to do with what engine it is but what size the cam clearance ramp is. This can be mapped using a dial indicator and a degree wheel.

My model a's 327 with a comp 284h is set at 22 I and e. Some cams that are considered tight lash can be as small as .008-.010.

Running a particular cam looser that spec will do nothing but beat the valve train to death and I absolutely recommend against doing that.
 
Hello,

just joined, I was looking for any info on v392 solid lifter cams. I have a new complete setup with pushrods, lifters, cam, rocker arms and rocker arm shaft asm. From palmer marine. I purchased them from palmer back in the late 70's when I was more into hot rodding IH's. Never got around to installing it. I had just turbo'ed the engine, got too busy to finish the project. Anyway, truck was wrecked and didn't need them. I think IH used this setup in the industrial division also. I thought this would be better for a turbocharged setup. If you want I 'll try to find out what the lash should be. Think I still have the 392 industrial service book with this info.
 
Hi,
in my palmer manual it says .024 exhaust hot and .018 intake hot

in my study of this apparently numbers are mostly posted for hot running motors. Makes sense seeing when things warm up they lengthen.

Can you tell me if they listed part numbers for the solid lifters-cam, etc...? I called around and sent in pictures of the dumbbell lifter to various places and lifter companies told me they dont exist.

Is that cam for a standard rotation motor?
How about putting up some pictures.

It would be great if you could post that industrial service book online at docstoc.com

I scanned in my palmer IH operators manual into a pdf and posted it
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/34445237/1970-palmer-marine-engine-manual-ih304-ih345-ih392
 
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