Steering death wander

B

Bayou Blaster

New member
I have a 65 Scout 80 that I rescued 2 years ago. The one challenge I have been unable to cure is the steering. It's practically undriveable. So far I had the Ross steering box rebuilt & steering knuckle. It has a SOA mod with 3.5" shackle extensions, all the ball joints had been replaced with helm joints and it sits on 10" rims with 33x12.5x50 relatively new tires. After reading all the post on this forum related to my problem I discovered my vehicle had shims that were installed backwards, pointing the diff downward instead of up. Believing this was the source of my problem I swapped the shims around pointed the diff upward and took it out for a test drive. OMG it's worst, almost undriveable. I am at a loss. I have built several early broncos and have yet to encounter an issue this serious that I could not correct. Can anyone help me?
 
Let's see some pictures of your set up. Most likely the whole set up is wrong and will need major modifications to fix, but before we go there let's see what all you have.
 
First you need to get rid of the Heim joints on a street vehicle, second 5" shackles is really likely the useable limit on a scout. (I'm assuming a 3.5" extension shackle is 6.5" bolt to bolt?)

What kind of drag link are you using? A Z bar style isn't the greatest. Is the pitman arm the right length for a SOA set up?

A high steer set up is far superior.

The shims are for correcting caster not pinion angle, they were installed correctly before you turned them around.

A full cut and turn of you axle is likely needed for proper caster and pinion angle.

And your Toe needs to be set between 1/16-1/8 toed in , 1/8 to 1/4 for tires 35" plus.


I am running IHPA SOA kit, 5" shackles with High Steer set up, a PSC Ram assist kit, 4-5 caster deg cut and turned axle.

My scout drives straight as an arrow, I've had mine up to 80 MPH and it tracks straight and I can steer with a couple fingers on the wheel.


Don't blame the Scout, it's not the Scouts fault someone made a cluster fudge of your steering.
 
ihpartsjeff said:
Let's see some pictures of your set up. Most likely the whole set up is wrong and will need major modifications to fix, but before we go there let's see what all you have.
Click to expand...

Let me know if you need better shots of any certain components. I switched the (4º) shims back to where they were initially. 3-1/2" shackle extensions bolt to bolt.
Thanks Jeff
Rodney
 

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Ya, ball joints when were they replaced? again Heims for street not great especially in single shear like yours are.

That Steering stabilizer is probably worn out.

How is the u joint and rag joint in the steering column shaft?

Those shackles are only 1/2" longer than normal.

That drag link is sketchy and should be longer, toward the pass side.

Again check the alignment too.
 
Check your caster angle. Hard to tell from the pictures but it looks like you might be running negative caster which will make a vehicle wander.
 
So when the previous owner performed a SOA conversion they appear to have done a cut and turn. Before I bring it to an alignment shop, from pictures below does this setup look correct? 3-1/2" shackle extensions (bolt to bolt), 4º shims, SOA conversion, cut & turn ±3 degrees, helm joints, rebuilt Ross steering box, rebuild steering knuckle, (no rag joint).
This thing has a lot of steering plan and not only wanders but jolts for the ditch when ever I hit a bump or pot hole. Very scary, I don't dare go over 35 mph.
 

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A properly done cut and turn would not require castor wedges. Castor is measured through the center line of the ball joints, hard to tell what is actually being measured there.
 
FDChappie said:
A properly done cut and turn would not require castor wedges. Castor is measured through the center line of the ball joints, hard to tell what is actually being measured there.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily so. Sometimes we shim first to set the pinion angle, then turn the knuckles accordingly.
 
Bayou Blaster said:
So when the previous owner performed a SOA conversion they appear to have done a cut and turn. Before I bring it to an alignment shop, from pictures below does this setup look correct? 3-1/2" shackle extensions (bolt to bolt), 4º shims, SOA conversion, cut & turn ±3 degrees, helm joints, rebuilt Ross steering box, rebuild steering knuckle, (no rag joint).
This thing has a lot of steering plan and not only wanders but jolts for the ditch when ever I hit a bump or pot hole. Very scary, I don't dare go over 35 mph.
Click to expand...
Not sure where you are getting your +/-3 degrees at for the cut and turn?? That measurement is taken from the kingpin/balljoint angle, not the perch angle. If you have play in the steering you will need to correct that first as well as determine where the true caster angle is at. And honestly I think I've only ever seen an early Scout closed knuckle Dana 27 or 30 axle SOA'd correctly once in my time and that was because someone took the time to make custom hysteer arms for it. The "Z" style draglink you have will cause a lot of bumpsteer in its current configuration. Might be time to cut loose on that front axle and build a proper open knuckle Dana 44 with hysteer and most of your problems will go away. Oh and power steering too as it will be tough to turn bigger tires with the factory manual steering.
 
Thanks for the feedback. Again this is a rescue that I was trying to keep as original as possible and driveable with the least amount of investment. Is there another option for the Z draglink with this differential?
If I can't get it somewhat driveable without a major investment I will probably just sell it.
Thanks for all the feedback and help!
 
Bayou Blaster said:
Thanks for the feedback. Again this is a rescue that I was trying to keep as original as possible and driveable with the least amount of investment. Is there another option for the Z draglink with this differential?
If I can't get it somewhat driveable without a major investment I will probably just sell it.
Thanks for all the feedback and help!
Click to expand...
At this point this Scout is far past original with the lift it has so I would do what is needed to make it drive right. Or like you mentioned, pass it on to the next individual who will make the correct repairs. The better option to a Z link is hysteer which is not offered for your closed knuckle axle.
 
I put the shims back to where they were and took her out for a good long drive today. As long as I was on decent roads she drove pretty good. i stopped by a friend that builds a lot of lifted offroad trucks. After he looked over the Scout & explained the mods, I have a much better understanding of your recommendations. What I know now is all my play in the steering is related to the Zbar & draglink twisting movement allowed by the helm joints. If I could eliminate the Zbar with a high link I believe it would drive satisfactory & eliminate the bump steer. But this does not appear to be an available option unless I fabricate it myself, correct? Would replacing the helms with ball joints improve this?
Again thanks for your support & patience, I’m up to speed with you guys now.
 
I think what you need is tie rod ends not ball joints, but you may find the reason the heim joints are there is because the tapered holes for the tie rod ends in the knuckles are boogered up. Also did you ever check the toe setting, from the pictures looks like you may be toed out which will also cause it to wander, and also chew up your tires, see some weird cracks in the inner tread blocks in the 7010 picture.
 
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