727 Trans mount question

Tonka Toy

Member
I"m in the process of swapping a dodge 318 into my Scout 2. During the teardown I found that the trans mount was toast. So I bought one of ihon's new trans mounts. When I went to reassemble, I realized that I had forgotten to take a picture of where things were underneath before I took it apart. :frown2: I spent some time last Sunday night trying to get it mounted up where I thought it was supposed to be. I'm trying to avoid installing the transfer case and drivelines until it's time to get it on the road.

Anyway, is this where I'm supposed to be?

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This trans location gives me the best fit for the engine in the bay, so I hope I'm right. :eek:

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Looks good to me.

IH created the 727 with those two sets of mounting feet. But I'm not sure in which application used the rear set. Maybe in pickups? I will have to crawl under a few and look.

The bigger question is you have a 318 with a dodge 727 with an IH tail housing. :icon_eh: why use the IH d20 at this point when the round pattern offers more choices.
 
looks good to me.

IH created the 727 with those two sets of mounting feet. But I'm not sure in which application used the rear set. Maybe in pickups? I will have to crawl under a few and look.

That would be greatly appreciated. What confused me was that the rear mounting holes were cleaner than the front ones, but I didn't notice this until it was back under the truck.

the bigger question is you have a 318 with a dodge 727 with an IH tail housing. :icon_eh: why use the IH d20 at this point when the round pattern offers more choices.

The reason I'm doing all of this is that I'm using what I have. The 345 lost it's cam bearings and the truck isn't getting used like it should. If it wasn't so expensive and involved to rebuild my 345 I would. I already have a low milage 318, and my Dana 20 has served me well. When and if I need something different, I will consider swapping it out. If I do it will likely get swapped for a 46rh or something similar so I can gear the axles down and still cruise well on the highway.
 
You should put the tcase in to see if your front drive shaft is gonna have enough clearance with the cross member. When you start swapping things, weird stuff happens.
 
318 dodge, good choice. I put one in my '73 about 5 years ago.
It has been very dependable and plenty of power. Many after market speed parts. The motor and trans slid right in. New front motor mounts and exhaust. Used the dodge radiator and hoses. Done deal, your on the road. Used the front holes in the trans mount on the crossover, which gave plenty of room at the fire wall. You will be happy with this swap.
 
318 dodge, good choice. I put one in my '73 about 5 years ago.
It has been very dependable and plenty of power. Many after market speed parts. The motor and trans slid right in. New front motor mounts and exhaust. Used the dodge radiator and hoses. Done deal, your on the road. Used the front holes in the trans mount on the crossover, which gave plenty of room at the fire wall. You will be happy with this swap.

I'd love to see some pictures of your install if you have any. I've got about 3 different ideas on the motor mounts. I'd like to see what you did, to see if I'm on track or not.

I'll probably use my stock exhaust manifolds, but I do have some headers I got from the wrecking yard. They were on a 70 power wagon, but I'm sure they are not for that specific application. Test fitted one the other day and it has lots of room. Might try them. We shall see.

Also, you say you used the dodge radiator,.. From what? I saw some picts of a Scout 2 with a 360 swap that used the original Scout radiator, and it looked like it worked just fine. I'll probably use that one, just curious what your radiator came from.

Thanks for the input dennis! :gringrin:
 
I used the stock radiator from the 76 dodge power wagon that the motor came from. I was able to use stock dodge hoses from the radiator to the motor. The radiator slid right in, used 3/8 tech screws in the dodge radiator side mounts to the Scout original location. I wish I could have made the Scout function this last weekend with my ride, but my wife insisted that I go with her to hawaii this week. I will post pictures as soon as I get back.
 
As stated, here are pictures of my 318 install. If you require further info or have any questions, please contact me. Pictures were taken with an iphone, first time for this for me. I hope they help. As you can see, I cut off the existing motor mount and made a new one out of square tubing and a plate. Used dodge stock motor mounts. If I remember right, the square tubing was welded at a 45 degree angle. The slot was cut into the tubing to access the bolt on the stock motor mount. Also used the stock exhaust manifolds with a crossover to single exhaust to avoid the hassle with the transfer case. Also I was told by my engine builder that a smaller carb and single exhaust decreases horsepower, but increases torque. Maybe or maybe not, different discussion. Good luck with your project. Let us know how it turns out.

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Thanks for all the pictures dennis! :icon_up: your iphone worked fine. That's all I have been using for my pictures. Gets tricky trying to hold it with one hand, position the drop light with the other, and still get a good picture. If only I could get to work on this thing in the daylight.

Anyway, I've been playing with mine a bit as time allows. I first installed the trans without the transfer case on it. That was quite a pain to get on without the use of a lift. Once I got it in, I was saddened to see that the engine is too far back the way it's pictured in my original posts. :sad: moving it forward isn't what I want to do, but it simplifies the process, as well as reduces costs. That'll keep the wife happy. :yesnod::icon_up:

my biggest concern with having it forward is in handling. But after some thought, I am probably losing 250 pounds up front with this swap. That's got to help! The next one is radiator clearance. I'm going to go with my Scout 2 radiator. Since the one from the dodge van is a tiny bit too wide. But it needs repaired anyway, so I'll recore it in a three row and gain some cooling in the process. I want to use the original clutch fan (I know,.. I must be nuts), but it won't fit now. Maybe time for an electric? We will see how it goes I guess.

Here's how I solved the motor mount problem:

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Dodge small block universal engine mount kit:

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This stuff is formed from 1/4" plate steel! :yikes::icon_up:

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This one was taken with the engine set back. I really wish it wasn't such a pain to leave it back this far!:

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A pictureless update. I'll post them tomorrow. Right now, I have the motor moved into the correct position, and the rear driveline is in. I also managed to get the old tabs cut off of the frame and the new ones mocked into place. I thought I was going to get away with using the original tabs, but the power steering pump is in the way. :icon_cry: all I'm waiting on now is to find someone I know that can weld them in for me. I don't have the welder or the experience to tackle it. The guy I know that's willing and able, can't borrow a welder to save his life. The guy I know that has the best welder is flaky about keeping commitments. :mad2:

I'm killing time by doing other parts of it. I took my radiator in the other day. The Scout bottom inlet is on the wrong side. And they can't move it. :mad2: ok, so off to find a dodge pick-up at the u-pull it yard to rob the radiator out of,.. Among other things. (thanks for the tip dennis! :icon_up:) so I find a nice 3 row that's easy to remove, and get it. I take it straight to the radiator shop. Prognosis; useless. Cracked tank and massive hole with bad patch job in the core itself, covered by a glob of dirt. :icon_scream: back to square one. :mad2:

so tonight I decide (while waiting for the welding flake), to tackle the wiring. I have an external voltage regulator and ignition module to mount now. So I also got a chunk of the wiring harness from the same said, dead power wagon. (I think I know partly why it died now :d) I did get things seperated and laid out a bit. Then I went looking online for the Scout 2 and 78 power wagon wiring diagrams. Yeah, you guessed it, I found everything but what I needed. :mad5:

sorry for the bitch-fest, I'm just getting a little bummed about it right now. I was pushing to at least back the truck out of the garage under it's own power by Monday night. The only thing I want for my birthday really. So close, and yet so far. :frown2:
 
A little more progress. Finally got my welding guy over and we looked over the situation. First we discovered that to get the motor "level", it need to drop farther than the current mount arms from the block allowed. (using the fan and core supports as a visual, making them parallel to one another.) they are about 1/4" wider than the frame width when mounted to the motor. So I removed them and whacked off a little from the end of them, and cleaned it up with my grinder. (pict. 1) now it drops down to where it needs to be, but the frame portion is now down below the frame about 2". It's not quite visible in these picts, but they are low. (picts 2 & 3) so we are making little gussets for that part to go to the bottom of the frame. Probably overkill, since they're made from 1/4" plate steel, but why take a chance? Haven't fully welded them in yet. Will post a picture when they're done.

Went through my research material earlier this evening and started routing wires. Mounted my Ford starter relay, the ignition module box and the external voltage regulator. Used my typical 1/4" x 1" stud bolt mounting system to keep them off of the firewall. They live much longer when air can circulate behind them, I've found out over the years of running mopars.

One last thing; I need a part identified. As I was going over the Scout's wiring, I found the item in the last picture below. I believe it to be a fusable link, but I'm not sure exactly. The wiring has some hacking on it, as the column ignition switch has been bipassed, and two of my firewall connectors have had repairs. Until I get around to rewiring it with a kwikwire kit this spring, I just want to get things functioning. I've done alot of reading and searching about it, and I guess it comes down to a couple of "simple" questions. First, if I'm retaining my ammeter (for now), it seems I need a couple of fusable links in the system, right? If so, then between which terminals does it need to run, what's the resistance value I should shoot for, and lastly, what would be the best way to do it (wire vs. Relay vs. Breaker, etc.)?

Thanks again! :gringrin:


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Motor mounts look great, looks like your making good process.
The question of the fusible link, what is it inline with? It does look like an add on replacement. You mentioned you were concerned about the motor being mounted forward, I had the same concerns,
I think IH had the motor mounted above the front axle for traction, and maybe handing, they're not known for road course
handling.
Keep us posted pictures.
 
Well the mystery wire continues. I failed to mention where it ran yesterday, sorry. It starts from the battery power lead at the starter, goes through that connector, then goes down into a harness that goes under the passenger's floorboard, like it's headed to the back of the truck. :icon_eh: but why would I have a 10 gauge wire heading in that direction? :confused: I May have to do some more detailed exploring under the truck.
 
:yikes: man, I haven't updated in quite a while! Well, here we go:

once I got the engine moved back into the correct position, I got the original mount pads trimmed out, and the new ones welded in. I had to trim 1/2" or so from the ends of the upper mounts so that they would clear. They were a tiny bit wider than the frame, and with settling, I feared they would end up rubbing the frame. Very clean, simple and rugged mounts. Great investment. :thumbsup:

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Then I went about the little stuff. One of the first things was that I needed to change the dipstick tube. This motor came from a van, so it had the 2.85 mile long dipstick. On the dodge, it's simply a metal tube (seems similar to brake line tubing), with a shoulder swedged into it, and it more or less press fits into the block. Some have a tab to hold it that goes to the front of the head, some don't. When I went to remove mine, the base stayed in the block. :mad2: :mad5: to get the right angle to remove it with my easy-out, I had to remove the timing cover. I didn't really want to, but since some of my long water pump bolts were corroded and not threading in, it also gave me access to clear the threads with a tap. When the cover came off, I got another surprise. :mad2:

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Uh,.. Yeah. That's not good. :lol: so I replaced it with a new double roller set. :d

I'd rather find and repair this crap now than in a month or two. :yes: now on to the radiator. The bottom outlet on the Scout 2 radiator was on the wrong side for my engine. But the local radiator shop couldn't swap sides with the bottom inlet. Following the tip given earlier by dennis, (thanks a million!!!) I found that a dodge pick-up radiator fit my opening almost perfectly. From 72 until 93 they all appear to be about the same perimeter dimensions, both truck and ramcharger. The only thing really needed to make mine work was that I had to have the mounting brackets reversed from side to side, and to trim off the tabs on the brackets for the fan shroud. In this picture, you can barely see the trimmed piece of bracket for the shroud. Note the bottom "slot" and the top hole. these lined up perfectly with the stock mounting holes in my Scout 2 core support!!! :clap: it totally blew me away to find this out!


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Before I get slapped for using a flex-fan, let me just say this; I don't really like them either. The fan is a temporary until I can get an electric one rigged up, and it came with the motor out of the van. Anyway, I also had to get a 1" spacer to make the fan clear everything. The biggest problem was that it drops an inch or so below the fins at the bottom, so I had to get it just right to clear the tank and the bottom pulley. I also found that I had to trim back the length of the radiator hoses. These came from the van and were practically new, so I just trimmed them. I just routed the transmission cooler lines back to the radiator, instead of my cheapo add-on cooler from the Scout radiator. I'll redo that when I go to the electric fan probably. For now, I'm not towing enough to worry about it. I also scored the factory bent cooler lines from a ramcharger, since my starter is now in the way of where the Scout 2's lines were run. This things nearly looks factory installed.

And speaking of pulleys, man was that ever a pain to work out! One of the few little things that didn't somehow make it into my parts box when the guy pulled my "complete" engine, was the water pump pulley. No problem, I'll just go to the boneyard and score one. Well,.. Not so fast buckaroo. Seems that there were some variations in pulleys that I wasn't aware of. The top pulley seemed to be the same on truck and van, but didn't fit mine right. Not only was it not deep enough to line up with both alternator pulleys, but it rubbed on the bottom pulley. :confused: a couple of phone calls alerted me to the fact that there were a couple of different bottom pulleys, and that I needed to snag them as a set. No prob! :thumbsup: back to the boneyard to get them. What I found was that my boneyard pulley was smaller in diameter, but moved the belt pulleys our farther, making everything line up just right.

Which gets me to where I am today, with as little of the unnecessary details as I can manage to skip. :lol: as of right now, I believe that I am an afternoon away from starting it up. I have to button up the wiring, which was quite the adventure to figure out. Thanks to some searching here, I found the diagrams I needed to bypass my ammeter (burnt and moderately well repaired job from a po just wasn't going to fly with me), and install my Ford starter relay. I also converted to the dodge alternator with the external regulator (I've had great luck with them over the years, not so with the GM stuff), which adds to the fun. I'm either really close to driving it, or rewiring the whole truck after the massive short cools off. Either way I win. :lol: I'll likely go with the kwikwire kit later this year. For now, I need this thing running before my car totally dies.

Oh, and I also still have to botch together an exhaust that will get me to the muffler shop. That will be fun. If nothing else, I'll run it on the manifolds and have it towed to the muffler shop. Not like I haven't done that before! But it will need to run for a bit so that I can get the transmission fluid full in the rebuilt transmission. I'm sure there's at least a dozen little other things to do also, like adjust the shift cable, downshift lever, etc. But we are so close now that it's not funny.
 
Nice progress! Most of the problems you had, I had the same.
Can't wait to see it. If you need any held, or further info, please contact me. 916-897-4808
 
Thanks dennis! I May do that. When is the best times to call? I typically work nights is about the easiest way to describe my schedule.

I did have a bonus discovery during this process I forgot to mention. I actually have a 360, not the 318 the guy thought he had. I discovered this when I went to get a new carb base plate gasket. The listed part for the 318 was too small. Assuming that nobody would swap intakes for a larger 2 barrel, the 360 listed in the books for the donor van was The right part. Then I went home and found where it was cast into the block. It has 360 then a 2, then the casting number. Not sure what that means yet, but a few more cubes shouldn't hurt! :icon_up::icon_cool:

today's progress seemed small. I just chased a few wires and was doing alot of replacing, routing and rerouting. I'm down to where I'm tying the IH stuff to the new system. Lots of time reading wiring diagrams and discerning the power flow to know if it's a key or battery powered wire. It's out in the driveway now, so that my woodworking pro friend can assemble the murphy bed I got for my daughter inside the "heated" garage. Once the sun went down, frost started forming on my tools. That typically sends me inside. I do enough work in the cold at work. :lol:
 
it lives! Well,... Sorta.

Last night I got the truck back into the garage for some more progress. While it was out in the driveway I did manage to get the exhaust hooked up. The pipes from the Scout lined up well enough that I was able to reuse them. I only had to add an 18" flex pipe to the driver's side to clear the starter. Good enough to get it over to the muffler shop! :d

the only wiring issue was that I ran a wire from the s terminal on the Ford relay, over to the coil side of the ballast resistor, for the cranking power bypass. This caused the truck to crank with the key on the run position and wouldn't stop when turned off. After I pulled that wire, it seemed to work as it should. Have to rethink that part. :lol: but I was encouraged by the fact that so far, no magic smoke has been released from any of my wiring or other electrical components. :lol:

I was disappointed to find that my mechanical fuel pump May be dead. Doesn't seem to pump much. We bypassed the tank and ran straight from a new can of gas. It wouldn't really fill the filter and never seemed to get anything to the carb. :mad2: I'll probably replace it with another mechanical for now. By this time the family was getting into bed, and I didn't want to keep them up with trying to start it in the garage, so I quit for the night. But it did run for a few seconds at a time when I poured a little fuel down the carb. :cool:

maybe I'll get it to run this evening. :gringrin:
 
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