Rusty Scout
Member
What do we do in this day and age to insure a proper break in for a rebuilt sv engine?
Recipe for SV Engine Break In Oil in 2010?
- Thread starter Rusty Scout
- Start date
DF Sales&Marketing
Oil Tech Moderator
First of all, from an oil and lubrication standpoint, the question I ask is this..... Has the engine already been rebuilt, or are you in the process of it. In other words, if it is already built and running, I would assume that the builder used some kind of break-in lubricant applied to the cam. If you are in the process of building it, or having it built by a professional, then cam lube and assembly lube is an absolute must.
Secondly, you might have read back and seen that the newer automotive oils which are api rated "sm" have a much lower phosphorous and zinc content than the previous grade, which is api rated "sl." those additives are deemed poisonous by the epa to catalytic converters, and thus they forced the industry to lower them by as much as 1/2 of what they were with the sl rating. Unfortunately, zinc is the main anti-wear additive, and reducing it has seen many failures in older, pre 2007 engines, especially in historic, vintage, flat-tappet cam and high performance engines.
There are not too many oil manufacturers still producing the sl grade and it might be hard to find on the shelf at your local auto supply store. Several companies, including swepco are producing sl, they will mostly be specialty-type blenders, or ones that recommend their products for high-performance engines. Some of them do not recommend those oils for street use.
The swepco 306 engine oil is a highly additized, friction modified oil and can be used from the very beginning right after your engine is built. It is an sl rated oil. You do not need to add anything to it as the additive package is synergistically designed to provide full protection for the engine.
Ihon stocks this in the 10w30, 15w40 and 20w50 weights, so depending on your engine builders recommendation, one of those should be a good choice for you. A ton of IH owners have switched over to the 306 and are very happy with the results they are getting.
Another product which many engine builders are using is the swepco 502 oil improver. They use this with other brands of oil, especially during the break-in period, but if you use the off the shelf "sm" grade, the recommendation is to add a pint of the 502 to every oil change (up to 5 quarts) each time you drop the oil.
Keep in mind that this is a premium quality product And as such it will mean spending a little more for it up front, but as with a lot of other things this quote would apply:
never, never, never forget that price involves a great deal more than money"
The product profiles on thes products are attached.
Secondly, you might have read back and seen that the newer automotive oils which are api rated "sm" have a much lower phosphorous and zinc content than the previous grade, which is api rated "sl." those additives are deemed poisonous by the epa to catalytic converters, and thus they forced the industry to lower them by as much as 1/2 of what they were with the sl rating. Unfortunately, zinc is the main anti-wear additive, and reducing it has seen many failures in older, pre 2007 engines, especially in historic, vintage, flat-tappet cam and high performance engines.
There are not too many oil manufacturers still producing the sl grade and it might be hard to find on the shelf at your local auto supply store. Several companies, including swepco are producing sl, they will mostly be specialty-type blenders, or ones that recommend their products for high-performance engines. Some of them do not recommend those oils for street use.
The swepco 306 engine oil is a highly additized, friction modified oil and can be used from the very beginning right after your engine is built. It is an sl rated oil. You do not need to add anything to it as the additive package is synergistically designed to provide full protection for the engine.
Ihon stocks this in the 10w30, 15w40 and 20w50 weights, so depending on your engine builders recommendation, one of those should be a good choice for you. A ton of IH owners have switched over to the 306 and are very happy with the results they are getting.
Another product which many engine builders are using is the swepco 502 oil improver. They use this with other brands of oil, especially during the break-in period, but if you use the off the shelf "sm" grade, the recommendation is to add a pint of the 502 to every oil change (up to 5 quarts) each time you drop the oil.
Keep in mind that this is a premium quality product And as such it will mean spending a little more for it up front, but as with a lot of other things this quote would apply:
never, never, never forget that price involves a great deal more than money"
The product profiles on thes products are attached.
Rusty Scout
Member
I just rebuilt the 304 and am about a week out from putting it back in the truck. The cam pre assembly lube is the isky supplied with the cam which was applied. I bought some mobile delvac 1300 15w-40 a few months ago as a bargain buy so I would need an additive. This is my first rebuild.
DF Sales&Marketing
Oil Tech Moderator
I, as well as the majority of engine builders I know would not recommend using delvac as the choice of oil to use after a rebuild in a gasoline engine.
Since it is a synthetic (actually semi-synthetic) oil, those types are not normally the preferred choice, but rather the "good-ol' dinosaur oil!"
unless you live in an area which is extremely cold, and you need to have an oil with a low pour point, synthetic oils are not really needed in your rig. In checking the delvac specs, the pour point is -30f (swepco is -27f), so there isn't much difference in them pour-point wise. However the delvac is only rated as a diesel oil (cj-4), whereas swepco has the ci-4 diesel rating (because of the higher additive levels) as well as the sl rating for gasoline engines.
Hope that helps.....
Since it is a synthetic (actually semi-synthetic) oil, those types are not normally the preferred choice, but rather the "good-ol' dinosaur oil!"
unless you live in an area which is extremely cold, and you need to have an oil with a low pour point, synthetic oils are not really needed in your rig. In checking the delvac specs, the pour point is -30f (swepco is -27f), so there isn't much difference in them pour-point wise. However the delvac is only rated as a diesel oil (cj-4), whereas swepco has the ci-4 diesel rating (because of the higher additive levels) as well as the sl rating for gasoline engines.
Hope that helps.....
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr-1_racing_motor_oil.pdf
Please understand that Jeff sells swepco products and they are fine for your IH. I don't want to dissuade potential customers from buying swepco from Jeff.
But.........
I for one do not have easy access to any swepco products and have been a proponent and avid user of vr1 for as long as I can remember so won't change my course. It has additives for extreme lifter loading not found in car oils. I regularly dabble in these sorts of engines and have never had any lifter/cam interface issue. But I also follow my own break-in bible.
Please understand that Jeff sells swepco products and they are fine for your IH. I don't want to dissuade potential customers from buying swepco from Jeff.
But.........
I for one do not have easy access to any swepco products and have been a proponent and avid user of vr1 for as long as I can remember so won't change my course. It has additives for extreme lifter loading not found in car oils. I regularly dabble in these sorts of engines and have never had any lifter/cam interface issue. But I also follow my own break-in bible.
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DF Sales&Marketing
Oil Tech Moderator
In comparing the statistics of the valvoline vr1 racing oil against the swepco 306, I see that the swepco product has the higher amount of additives. The flash points and pour points are close enough to say that they are the same. Other compared items can be considered close.
The vr1 does have a greater choice in the straight weight oils, whereas the swepco 305 (special order) is only available in either 30 or 40 weights. Some race people prefer using straight 50 or straight 60 weight oils, but those oils would not be very good for street use or daily drivers.
I would not put myself in a position where I would recomend one oil over another for use as a "break-in oil." proper break-in as mentioned in other posts is subject to many other factors, from cleanliness and assembly to the choice of an engine oil (or oil additive) which is high in zinc for wear protection. Please conform to those parameters when consideration is given for the satisfaction and life of your equipment.
I realize that people have their own favorites, and that is what it is all about, my objective is to inform and hopefully educate more people about the benefits of using a higher quality oil than what is normally available. Jeff has chosen to use swepco as the "house brand" because of the high quality and the performance characteristics which it offers. Certainly there are other fine products on the market which are available..... There are, after all over 600 oil blenders in the u.s.! You will always "pay more up front" for a better quality product, some people will base their buying decision on that premise, but the "bottom-line cost" is what you are really looking at to have a true comparison after knowing what the chemical aspects are. I have not seen, nor have I looked into what the going price on the vr1 oil is, but I would assume it has a higher selling price than the regular valvoline oils do.....and rightly so due to the fact that I would consider it to be a better oil (looking at the chemistry) than the regular off-the-shelf valvoline is.
After representing swepco for over 25 years, I have seen many other products, varying in quality, and have had the opportunity to sell other brands, but you can see where I am, and where I am remaining!
Dick floryanowich
swepco
The vr1 does have a greater choice in the straight weight oils, whereas the swepco 305 (special order) is only available in either 30 or 40 weights. Some race people prefer using straight 50 or straight 60 weight oils, but those oils would not be very good for street use or daily drivers.
I would not put myself in a position where I would recomend one oil over another for use as a "break-in oil." proper break-in as mentioned in other posts is subject to many other factors, from cleanliness and assembly to the choice of an engine oil (or oil additive) which is high in zinc for wear protection. Please conform to those parameters when consideration is given for the satisfaction and life of your equipment.
I realize that people have their own favorites, and that is what it is all about, my objective is to inform and hopefully educate more people about the benefits of using a higher quality oil than what is normally available. Jeff has chosen to use swepco as the "house brand" because of the high quality and the performance characteristics which it offers. Certainly there are other fine products on the market which are available..... There are, after all over 600 oil blenders in the u.s.! You will always "pay more up front" for a better quality product, some people will base their buying decision on that premise, but the "bottom-line cost" is what you are really looking at to have a true comparison after knowing what the chemical aspects are. I have not seen, nor have I looked into what the going price on the vr1 oil is, but I would assume it has a higher selling price than the regular valvoline oils do.....and rightly so due to the fact that I would consider it to be a better oil (looking at the chemistry) than the regular off-the-shelf valvoline is.
After representing swepco for over 25 years, I have seen many other products, varying in quality, and have had the opportunity to sell other brands, but you can see where I am, and where I am remaining!
Dick floryanowich
swepco
Thanks for the reply on this, I appreciate the information, I am by no means trying promote any one product over another, I was just trying to determine if using what I have available in my area is the best alternative, I do intend on using the swepco product in the future, just didnt have it available at the time I needed it. Being up in anchorage I am kind of limited on whats on the shelf around here at an affordable price. If you know of any local retailers of swepco I would be interested in learning of them.
I didnt mean to start up a he said she said thread against or for any one product.
Thanks again for the information.
I didnt mean to start up a he said she said thread against or for any one product.
Thanks again for the information.
DF Sales&Marketing
Oil Tech Moderator
There was no offense taken, and I'm sorry if you took it that way.... I was just trying to give you a comparison and some information which I thought you should have. Like I said, there are many good products out there, and people have the right to have their likes and dislikes.
Too bad you didn't tell me sooner that you are in anchorage, we were there in July on a cruise/tour which went from anchorage all the way up to prudhoe bay, then back to anchorage and on a cruise ship out of seward down to vancouver. While in anchorage, we took an excursion to portage glacier and I was talking with the bus driver, who I found out was also a Scout owner from connecticut, and I turned him onto the ihon website.... What a co-incidence! I really doubt that my wife would have let me put 7 - 8 quarts of engine oil in our luggage, and even if so, maybe it wouldn't have gotten through the tsi inspection!
From what I saw in alaska, there is nothing available at an affordable price! We did have a good evening meal at uncle john's pizza (I think that was the name) tho, 2 large slices of pizza, salad and a soft drink for $7.50, $35.00 for breakfast for two was a little steep tho at the hilton, where we stayed a few nights or at snow city cafe.
We did have a great time on vacation there, and knew ahead of time that the prices would be high..... I even got my picture taken with sarah palin!
Thanks for your post.....
Too bad you didn't tell me sooner that you are in anchorage, we were there in July on a cruise/tour which went from anchorage all the way up to prudhoe bay, then back to anchorage and on a cruise ship out of seward down to vancouver. While in anchorage, we took an excursion to portage glacier and I was talking with the bus driver, who I found out was also a Scout owner from connecticut, and I turned him onto the ihon website.... What a co-incidence! I really doubt that my wife would have let me put 7 - 8 quarts of engine oil in our luggage, and even if so, maybe it wouldn't have gotten through the tsi inspection!
From what I saw in alaska, there is nothing available at an affordable price! We did have a good evening meal at uncle john's pizza (I think that was the name) tho, 2 large slices of pizza, salad and a soft drink for $7.50, $35.00 for breakfast for two was a little steep tho at the hilton, where we stayed a few nights or at snow city cafe.
We did have a great time on vacation there, and knew ahead of time that the prices would be high..... I even got my picture taken with sarah palin!
Thanks for your post.....
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Interesting dick, thanks for the comparo......... But I am sticking to what has been the winning formula for me.
DF Sales&Marketing
Oil Tech Moderator
Robert,
"I realize that people have their own favorites, and that is what it is all about, my objective is to inform and hopefully educate more people about the benefits of using a higher quality oil than what is normally available. Jeff has chosen to use swepco as the "house brand" because of the high quality and the performance characteristics which it offers. Certainly there are other fine products on the market which are available..... There are, after all over 600 oil blenders in the u.s.!"
best regards,
dick
"I realize that people have their own favorites, and that is what it is all about, my objective is to inform and hopefully educate more people about the benefits of using a higher quality oil than what is normally available. Jeff has chosen to use swepco as the "house brand" because of the high quality and the performance characteristics which it offers. Certainly there are other fine products on the market which are available..... There are, after all over 600 oil blenders in the u.s.!"
best regards,
dick
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Dick,
I believe the operative words in my posted response to a specific question regarding vr1 in "me" and "I".
I specifically noted swepco as being sold by Jeff and the fact that I am not using it because I don't have easy access to it , not because I think it is a bad product.
My post was an answer to the vr1 question and in that context only. Not to compare vr1 as being better or worse that swepco I leave that for someone specifically asking that question.
I believe the operative words in my posted response to a specific question regarding vr1 in "me" and "I".
I specifically noted swepco as being sold by Jeff and the fact that I am not using it because I don't have easy access to it , not because I think it is a bad product.
My post was an answer to the vr1 question and in that context only. Not to compare vr1 as being better or worse that swepco I leave that for someone specifically asking that question.
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Think I'll just stick to crisco and wd-40.......engine seems to run fine with that in it. I cant help but feel ive started some kind of war here, didnt mean to do that....however there is some good information coming out of it that I appreciate. It has definitely answered the questions I had.
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Ok I hope my banter with dick has not come off like you say "a war".
I have the utmost respect for dick's knowledge and experience and would never want to take anything away from that or disparage his writing in any way.
I am sure the swepco oil is of the highest quality and should be welcomed in any engine.
DF Sales&Marketing
Oil Tech Moderator
I can't see how anyone can say there is a "war" going on, if there is; I don't see how as it started with a question being asked, an answer was given with technical backup (without a recommendation and why) and an agreement that "not all oils are created equal" and that there are "many good products avaialable." if I gave an impression other than that, then please accept the fact that sometimes in my command of the english language things May not be interpreted in the same way it was meant to be. (a common malady that occurs with age).
Peace, brother......
Peace, brother......
Erik VanRenselaar
Member
Just to clarify: the original post refers to mobil delvac 1300 super 15w40 oil, which is not a synthetic and has an api ci-4 rating. From what I know, the delvac 1300 is interchangeable with the chevron delo 400 and shell rotella t oils
DF Sales&Marketing
Oil Tech Moderator
According to the exxon/chevron website under delvac, I cannot find anything which says that it is not a synthetic or semi-synthetic oil.
The delvac1300 is actually rated as a cj-4 oil, however the delvac mx oil does carry the ci-4 (and earlier ratings). In order to meet the api standards, either oil can be used as a ci-4, however the delvac 1300 is specifically made for use in diesel engines equipped with the dpf exhaust system. So if you wanted to use a delvac oil which is "interchangeable" with the (old) chevron delo 400 (not the ((new))chevron delo le) or the rotella-t, the proper choice would be the delvac mx and not the delvac 1300.
Here is the selected literature I copied and pasted from their website for your review:
in addition to our mobil delvac engine oils, we offer a complete line of fully synthetic drivetrain fluids and high-performance greases that provide long equipment life and help you maximize the performance of your heavy duty vehicle.
Mobil delvac 1300 super 15w-40
cj-4/ci-4 plus/ci-4/ch-4/cg-4/cf/sm/sl
helps keep engines clean from soot and sludge
proven performance for one million miles and beyond
meets the latest requirements of all major heavy duty engine builders, including api cj-4
mobil delvac mx
ci-4 plus/ci-4/cg-4/sl/sj
recommended for use in high performance diesel applications including pre-2007 turbo-charged, low emission engines designs, including those featuring egr technology.
Off-highway applications operating in severe low speed/heavy load conditions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
reminder: oils meeting cj-4/sm for 2007 and newer engines have lower additives in their formulations than the oils meeting the pre-2007 engines do which are ci-4plus/ci-4/sl.
Oil specification changes have been confusing to a lot of people, and now we have a new one coming up for gasoline service which will be even lower in additives than the current sm specification.... It will be rated as an "sn" oil.
The delvac1300 is actually rated as a cj-4 oil, however the delvac mx oil does carry the ci-4 (and earlier ratings). In order to meet the api standards, either oil can be used as a ci-4, however the delvac 1300 is specifically made for use in diesel engines equipped with the dpf exhaust system. So if you wanted to use a delvac oil which is "interchangeable" with the (old) chevron delo 400 (not the ((new))chevron delo le) or the rotella-t, the proper choice would be the delvac mx and not the delvac 1300.
Here is the selected literature I copied and pasted from their website for your review:
in addition to our mobil delvac engine oils, we offer a complete line of fully synthetic drivetrain fluids and high-performance greases that provide long equipment life and help you maximize the performance of your heavy duty vehicle.
Mobil delvac 1300 super 15w-40
cj-4/ci-4 plus/ci-4/ch-4/cg-4/cf/sm/sl
helps keep engines clean from soot and sludge
proven performance for one million miles and beyond
meets the latest requirements of all major heavy duty engine builders, including api cj-4
mobil delvac mx
ci-4 plus/ci-4/cg-4/sl/sj
recommended for use in high performance diesel applications including pre-2007 turbo-charged, low emission engines designs, including those featuring egr technology.
Off-highway applications operating in severe low speed/heavy load conditions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
reminder: oils meeting cj-4/sm for 2007 and newer engines have lower additives in their formulations than the oils meeting the pre-2007 engines do which are ci-4plus/ci-4/sl.
Oil specification changes have been confusing to a lot of people, and now we have a new one coming up for gasoline service which will be even lower in additives than the current sm specification.... It will be rated as an "sn" oil.