Automatic Transmission Shifter
- Thread starter sfntexas
- Start date
Carl Wiese
Member
Yep, anyone that works with a 727 would work for a Scout. Nothing special is needed.
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
If you are looking for a "drop in" shifter unit replacement...the answer is no.
The oem system is a cable shifter. Closest to that is one of several units available from lokar for the 727. All these 727-dedicated shifters are for chrysler or amc vehicle installs (equipped with a 727 tranny). Any other installs are going tor require a bit of fabrication.
One major difference is the shifter arm itself to which the sii cable connects and it's method of adjustment. Most (not all) of the aftermarket shifters are transmission-mounted and use a connecting rod and include a dedicated shift lever for the valve body which is designed for the "throw" and detent positions of the particular shift unit. And for instance...a Scout II shift arm is not the same length/pattern as the same part on a pickall or a Jeep product.
From my personal knowledge of 727 shift arms, there are at least four used in all IH apps, and I know of at least four others used in dodge/chrysler/plymouth/dodge truck apps. I don't mess with amc stuff so I'm not familiar with shift arm variations for those.
Can the aftermarket shifters be utilized onna sii??? Of course...but you better be willing to devote some extended fabrication time in the process.
The units which are transmission-mounted will be very difficult to use since they will mount on the trans at the wrong point for the sii!
I'm moving this thread to transmission tech for more appropriate indexing!
The oem system is a cable shifter. Closest to that is one of several units available from lokar for the 727. All these 727-dedicated shifters are for chrysler or amc vehicle installs (equipped with a 727 tranny). Any other installs are going tor require a bit of fabrication.
One major difference is the shifter arm itself to which the sii cable connects and it's method of adjustment. Most (not all) of the aftermarket shifters are transmission-mounted and use a connecting rod and include a dedicated shift lever for the valve body which is designed for the "throw" and detent positions of the particular shift unit. And for instance...a Scout II shift arm is not the same length/pattern as the same part on a pickall or a Jeep product.
From my personal knowledge of 727 shift arms, there are at least four used in all IH apps, and I know of at least four others used in dodge/chrysler/plymouth/dodge truck apps. I don't mess with amc stuff so I'm not familiar with shift arm variations for those.
Can the aftermarket shifters be utilized onna sii??? Of course...but you better be willing to devote some extended fabrication time in the process.
The units which are transmission-mounted will be very difficult to use since they will mount on the trans at the wrong point for the sii!
I'm moving this thread to transmission tech for more appropriate indexing!
Carl Wiese
Member
Mike, are you sure on this? As far as I know all of the B&M shifters use a cable and the lokar is the only one I have seen that uses a connceting rod and is transmission mounted. I have looked into this quite a bit, because I want to get rid of the column shift on 100 buck truck.
In fact while looking for these few pictures the 5-6 models of B&M I looked at were cable operated.
Lokar
Am I missing something here?
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Yes I'm sure...the big kicker on any of these aftermarket shifters is the shift lever on the valve body. It's "length" has to match the travel/geometry of the shifter mechanism.
Some of the dedicated 727 shifter kits come with their own shift lever which makes it "work"...others are dependent upon the shifter indexing properly with a chrysler-pattern shift lever.
And...your situation is different..you are dealing with a pickup which is a completely different setup as compared to the poster's Scout II swap!
A pickup or Travelall has much more room and options for mounting an aftermarket shifter.
These shifters have been around for ages with many variations produced...no telling what might be sitting on a shelf somewhere...and that's the kind of "issues" that we see constantly regarding "nos" aftermarket parts that are scammed out on egay.
Any shifter could be put on any vehicles with enough fabrication skills and parts...but as far as "bolt-on" for a Scout II...good luck.
Some of the dedicated 727 shifter kits come with their own shift lever which makes it "work"...others are dependent upon the shifter indexing properly with a chrysler-pattern shift lever.
And...your situation is different..you are dealing with a pickup which is a completely different setup as compared to the poster's Scout II swap!
A pickup or Travelall has much more room and options for mounting an aftermarket shifter.
These shifters have been around for ages with many variations produced...no telling what might be sitting on a shelf somewhere...and that's the kind of "issues" that we see constantly regarding "nos" aftermarket parts that are scammed out on egay.
Any shifter could be put on any vehicles with enough fabrication skills and parts...but as far as "bolt-on" for a Scout II...good luck.
Carl Wiese
Member
Okay, so I am still a bit confused. So to work you'd need a cable shifter, with a matching lever included to work on a Scout II? The only reason I ask as I May be needing a Scout II version as well, depending on what parts sell and which truck I end up building. I understand the detents not matching all to well, it's what I am fighting with my GM column and chrysler trans in my pickup.
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
No carl...the poster asked specifically regarding a Scout II replacement shifter unit! And...because of the very limited positioning regarding a Scout II shifter and keeping it near oem, that pretty much rules out using a tranny mounted shifter that uses a control rod. And rules out "some" of the aftermarket cable shifters! But not all!
But...a fullsize rig is a whole different matter! There is much room to mount nearly any aftermarket shifter and make it work. And...if the "kit" is supplied with a dedicated shift lever, then it will bolt right on and shifter travel and shifter "arm" travel will be correct for the detent position on the oem rooster comb and nss.
Your problem only is common to all '74/'75 fullsize rigs that use a tf 727. The saginaw steering column is installed with a column shift arm that is "coordinated" for a th350/th400 slushbox tranny, including the shifter arm that is supplied on those trannys say when installed in a '75 model chevrolet pickup. That shift lever under the hood on your steering column does not correctly match the leverage "ratio" of the shift lever installed by IH on the tf 727 (remember...there were many shift levers made and used over time). It worked "ok" when new...but after about 10,000 miles of use, the linkage inside the column becomes sloppy (very common GM/saginaw issue from the beginning of time) and no amount of fine tuning can accommodate the lack of coordinated movement needed.
Some of the aftermarket "universal" shifters come packaged with various arms that can be used to tweek this system to work with any transmission (within reason).
Again...this issue has to do with specific applications of the 727, the Scout II system is "unique", the fullsize stuff is far more mainstream. And...you and dan did not experience this a any extent in your crawler rig since the whole setup was a scratch fabrication and used a reverse valve body!
Now...if the engine/tranny package is "relocated", all bets are off! And in the case of your '74 truck, the package is moved back and down as compared to a '73 and earlier. So the "space" for a tranny mount shifter simply won't be there (unless ya install bucket seats and have the shifter back around your elbow!), that leads me to conclude that only the cable shifter that can have the actual shift unit installed in several locations (not rigid mount to the trans) will be usable.
Or...score an oem dash-mounted cable shifter for an IH motorhome chassis and use that!!! By the way...those were not anything similar to the early chrysler "pushbutton" shifter so don"t go there! Your transmission cannot have a pushbutton shifter and valve body installed!
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
The B&M shifter will work on any 727 except a true early "pushbutton" unit that has no external shift control lever ('65 and earlier).
Makes no difference if the cable is oriented from the front or the rear as long as it's installed per the instructions.
Makes no difference if the cable is oriented from the front or the rear as long as it's installed per the instructions.
