TravelAll window motor

O

ojh

Member
I am working on a '67 1000 series Travelall and have been thru the rear window regulator, window tracks, mechanicals, had the motor rebuilt, replaced the wiring, bypassed the switch, had this mess apart and back together maybe 6 times, played with different preloads on the spring..you name it and this thing just dosn't have enough power to wind up the window.
Have any of you guys managed to fix this? I'd buy a new motor just to see, but of course this is an odd setup with motor seperate from the regulator. I'm flummoxed.
 
Sorry I know nothing about the specifics of t-all rear windows.
I can only give general advice.
If you disconnect the motor mechanically can you move the window by hand?

If you help the window by hand while running the motor does it wind up/down?
 
Afternoon Robert, thanks for the reply. I have replaced the track the window slides up and down on. If I pull the clips at bottom of window and release it from the regulaor it slides freely, there is slop but not enough that the window will bind itself up.
I've no idea how many times I've taken this thing apart trying to find what I've done wrong, I keep wondering if the spring that assists the window has lost its' tension. I have taken it apart and messed with it, there is just a certain amout of preload that can be applied, you see when the rear window goes down the weight of the window should wind up this spring and when the window goes back up the spring tension should assist the motor. That window is heavy and a little electric motor can only lift just so much, like me, it needs all the help it can get. At least thats what I am thinking. Oj
edited note: yes to your question about lending a hand to the motor by pulling up while the motor is tring to lift. And not all that much either.
 
I do not have an electric rear window -- "d" body anyway.

A couple things I can think...

I assume you have tested that you have a full 12 volts at the motor in the tailgate.

An issue on a starter (and would apply to other electric motors) that I have seen is that if you re-assemble them "too tight" (not the correct clearances), the extra friction affects "performance" (I "rebuilt" a starter that would not turn over at all.)

have you "bench tested" the motor? Does it produce "more rpm" on the bench as opposed to in the vehicle.

Another issue is "alignment" -- does the window "rub excessively" as it goes up the "guides" into the t/a body?

I do not think there are "side guides" (like auto door windows) on the rear window, but maybe how the window regulator mounts (aligns) inside the tailgate or the alignment of the tailgate to the body May be an issue.

Be careful -- if you try to adjust it and get it too far out of adjustment, I think you risk shattering the rear window.

Hth
 
All good suggestions Robert. The track is like a side window track (that is what I used), the whole mess is just like a side window. I sent the motor to a place in florida that rewound the magnetic fields. The motor seems to run tiptop. Yes to your question, it will run faster if I cut the wires loose near the motor and connect another battery to it. When I discovered this I replaced the harness with #12ga all the way to the switch and did away with the bulkhead connector on the firewall and elimated the circuit breaker and fuse holder on the supply side of the switch.
Do you know if there is a manual crank replacement assembly to replace the electric, I hate to admit defeat but ...
 
I am not good at "electrical" -- if you could get "full power" to the motor, I would assume it would work correctly. But, I do not know how to do that.

Thought of something though they do not like wags here -- have you thought about replacing the switch on the dash?

I should add that you test the output from the switch for 12 volts with an electrical tester in both "on" positions.

Does the "c" t/a have the "neutral safety" switch (window disabled when tailgate open) like the "d"s?

I do not know anything about "c" travelalls, but I assume there is not much difference on this subject from "d" travelalls.

The manual crank rear window was standard equipment on "d" t/as.

The electric rear window was included (standard) with the custom interior package.

But, since you could order "anything" on an IH, I assume you could order the electric rear window "stand alone".

In your case, you would need to find a "c" t/a tailgate with a manual rear window with "everything" intact. Or, someone who has saved all the pieces.

You need the rear window hand crank - "outside" and "inside" and the manual window regulator gear assembly.

I do not know if Jeff would have a manual crank "c" t/a mechanism in his inventory at ihon.

On my t/a there is a shaft that goes from the hand crank to a small gear in the window regulator.

Here is a picture of the regulator in my "d" t/a, but I assume a "c" would be slightly different... On my t/a, the electric motor would be mounted in the cavity "behind" the regulator.
 

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First I would make sure you are getting full voltage at the motor when loaded.

While fully assembled, have a helper activate the window switch while watching a vom connected to the motor wires(at the motor). +/- 2 volts you should have 12 volts to the motor.

If not the wiring is suspect of having exessive resistance. Let us know if you do the test and what the out come is.
 
When trying to run the window 'up', have you tried it with the engine running at a slightly faster rpm to provide a bit higher voltage to the system? That seems to help raise the window in my 68 t/a. A couple other things to consider is the possibility of running a 'ground' wire through the wire hole at the base and to somewhere on the frame. Consider using the existing wires to trigger a set of 'relays' with the power coming from the hot lead on the starter using a #8 or #10 wire.
Bill bennett 68 Travelall
 
Yes, with the engine running the window will travel further. Pretty much by myself at the moment so can't do the voltage reading as suggested. I do like the relay idea. That would eliminate a lot of voltage drops and splices wouldn't it.
Both you guys are looking at voltage, so you think the spring hasn't lost its' 'omph'?
It would take a few relays or solenoids to get the job done because the magnetic field gets its' supply along with the windings (at the same time), I'll ponder this a bit and see about setting up a test. Thanks, oj
 
ojh said:
both you guys are looking at voltage, so you think the spring hasn't lost its' 'omph'?
Thanks, oj
Click to expand...

Voltage will effect motor torque available and balance spring tension will effect required torque to raise the window. So kinda a 2 way fix/scenario.

I would assume the spring has lost some of its tension. Just like leaf springs sag so do all springs under constant tension, and that won't help your condition.

Can you add some deflection and increase the springs balance effect? Sorry I don't know the t-all.
 
The main problem getting the window down into the gate or getting the window up from the gate seems to be the rubber 'squeege'(?) in the top of the gate opening. The gap between the 2 pieces is tighter/narrower than the metal edge on the glass. Once the metal is past the rubber, the motor can lift the glass by itself. Haven't lubed the gears for 25 years.
Have you tried adjusting the position of the tailgate hinges to perhaps better align the window guides 'inside the gate' with the window guides on the body? If you have the rubber pieces in the gate, try turning the 'inside' section upside down so the metal edge doesn't have to fight the small gap. I'm gonna do that someday!!
Bill
 
You guys are too much! I've been on a number of different forums getting help for this and that but this site is actually trying and not paying lip service. Thanks, I really appreciate your time.
At some point in the day I'll be able to take some voltage readings. When I took the assembly apart I replaced the window tracks (I had enough material left over from doing the doors), the tracks aren't exactly the same as the factory but there isn't any binding. I replaced the bottom stops. If I unclip the window from the regulator it slids freely, the motor lifts both sides evenly.
I have trash in the gas tank issues to resolve today and tomorrow but I'll take the tailgate back apart and post some pics. I had pics of it but had them developed and deleted them from my chip.
A bit o/t Robert but I think I'd like to have an old 6-71, pref magnesium case. Got one layin under the bench getting all dusty and in everybodies way? Later, oj
 
ojh said:
a bit o/t Robert but I think I'd like to have an old 6-71, pref magnesium case. Got one layin under the bench getting all dusty and in everybodies way? Later, oj
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Afraid not partner. If I had one it would not be collecting dust. :icon_eek: :gringrin:
 
The "pierson brothers coupe" was one of the bruce meyer restorations scss did.

Quite a sight.
 

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The socal " alex xydias" coupe . Historically more significant for socal and its founder
 

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Tom cobb, never heard of him. I read the 3 piece article and it is a great story. Thanks michael. How is it that you remember that story, when was it written 2-3years ago? Incredible story. You guys know willie glass? There is a story there too.
I had a chance to crew at bonneville this year, a banger coupe, but they were too late getting the block back from having it reinforced and weren't ready until 2nd week of sept and I had to be in michigan then. Broke my heart too. They said it rained most of the time and didn't get but one miserable pass. Next year for sure.
More o/t, michael I spoke to you a while back about getting you to set up a mess of 1904's for my hemi remember? I just finished up a '32 with a blown 427 for a customer and might have gotten myself addicted to that blower thing. I wanted to ask you if setting those 1904's on top of a blower is a good idea.
And no, I didn't get the voltages on the window today. I replaced a front spring on a nice old coupe that was sagging and the front tire was getting into the fender in a tight turn. I did get the gas tank out yesterday, what a mess in there. It is off to the radiator shop for mucking and I'll be back to work on it tomorrow making new emergancy brake cables.
 
You stop and see jimmy shine while you were on the salt?? I know the ecotech group had some good sucess on the roadster in October.


The 1904 on top of a blower was fairly common on early fords. Attached is a blower setup I saw a bakersfield. Probably went on a flatty.
 

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ojh said:
Tom cobb, never heard of him. I read the 3 piece article and it is a great story. Thanks michael. How is it that you remember that story, when was it written 2-3years ago? Incredible story. You guys know willie glass? There is a story there too.
I had a chance to crew at bonneville this year, a banger coupe, but they were too late getting the block back from having it reinforced and weren't ready until 2nd week of sept and I had to be in michigan then. Broke my heart too. They said it rained most of the time and didn't get but one miserable pass. Next year for sure.
More o/t, michael I spoke to you a while back about getting you to set up a mess of 1904's for my hemi remember? I just finished up a '32 with a blown 427 for a customer and might have gotten myself addicted to that blower thing. I wanted to ask you if setting those 1904's on top of a blower is a good idea.
And no, I didn't get the voltages on the window today. I replaced a front spring on a nice old coupe that was sagging and the front tire was getting into the fender in a tight turn. I did get the gas tank out yesterday, what a mess in there. It is off to the radiator shop for mucking and I'll be back to work on it tomorrow making new emergancy brake cables.
Click to expand...

I kin remember needless and useless crap from many years ago just fine, it's whatever happened twenty minutes ago that is hard!!!!

Robert grew up in the midst of all these oldtimers/heros, they changed his diapers! I just lived it vicariously from far away in tejas. If it hadn'ta been for hot rod magazine and rod and custom, no way I woulda ever made it through high skool!

Hail yes I remember about that six-pak (or wuz it an eight-pak?) of 1904 carbs, I think I really dropped the ball on that since I wuz in the midst of cellphone hell at the time and could not recover the phone number ya left! Let's try that again! Post up about that in carb tech so others can follow along, who knows, we May see a blown 392 sv motor any day now comin' outta Robert's shop with a whole passle of 1904 juicers on top! In fact...yawl work up a bonneville class for that motor when stuck inna chopped/channeled Scout 80, maybe run it on kerosene or lamp oil???

Check that front-mount blower pic Robert put up, that'sa dam 1904 mixer right there...I can even see the Ford-spec I.d. Tag on the fuel bowl screw! But I don't recognize the actual huffer, is that a schorrock?? Edit: now I can see that the flathead huffer appears to be a judson!

Speakin' of huffers and 1904 carbs, heres a link you kidz might find entertaining...another member here who hangs out in switzerland has been corresponding with me backchannel regarding 1904 carb parts and judson superchargers. Remember those??? Quite the hot ticket for british and other eurotrash cars back in the 60's>70's. Here's the link to dominick's site, it's a wonderful place to visit!:

home

And judson marketed one of the first "transistorized" ignition units as an aftermarket add-on, bill bennett here on the board has one on his roundbody t'all iirc:

magneto sales literature

I had one of these onna '59 bugeye sprite and an olds-powered '40 Ford coupe.

This thread has been offishulee hi-jacked!!

By the way...all the above is good info on that really weak-azz roundbody tailgate winder-winder. My '68 had the same issue...if ya greeze up the regulator stuff like robertc suggested (really greezee), and spray silicone on the channels onna daily basis, it really helps. My opinion is, the overall oomph of the lift system is simply not up to the task of movin' that heavy chunk of glass in a vertical motion. And the voltage drop from the engine bay all the way back means ya really need to mount an auxiliary battery in the azzend and charge it from an isolator just to run the winder-winder!
 
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