Steering barely center's itself?
- Thread starter Pleil
- Start date
"return to center" is a based on caster.
Did you have your alignment checked?
Did you check that the axle was straight?
From what I have read on soas, people do a "cut and turn" on the axle "c"s to set the caster (particularly when the axle housing is rotated up for a better driveline angle) -- did you do that?
Obviously Jeff and darreen know much more than I do about this....
Forgot about the whine -- I do not kow why - belt? -- somethiing in the new box requires more pressure to turn to the left??? Did you recheck the fluid level?
Did you have your alignment checked?
Did you check that the axle was straight?
From what I have read on soas, people do a "cut and turn" on the axle "c"s to set the caster (particularly when the axle housing is rotated up for a better driveline angle) -- did you do that?
Obviously Jeff and darreen know much more than I do about this....
Forgot about the whine -- I do not kow why - belt? -- somethiing in the new box requires more pressure to turn to the left??? Did you recheck the fluid level?
Last edited:
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
As Robert said, the "no self-return" issue is due to the strange caster spec (as in "zero" or real close) that IH had Dana/spicer build into the axle assembly. And on top of that, ya can not compare this issue with any other type of vehicle either 2wd or an independent front 4x4. This is fairly common on any "straight steering axle" setup, but most noticeable on the sii in my opinion.
One of the reasons it was done was because of the fairly enormous front end weight onna sii, pickups and t'alls have the same thing going on, but the weight distribution is marginally "better" (not much!!!).
Having an oem caster setup as on the sii 4x4 simply makes the steering (whether manual or power assist) feel "light", a desirable consumer concern. But it also makes the dam thing real squirrelly to drive down the highway generally speaking. Always keep in mind...when dealing with ihc shit...these are trucks and bear no resemblance to passenger car handling and road manners either back then...or now.
Ihc never properly matched suspension/steering geometry with power steering effort and steering wheel size in a cohesive manner. Again...these were trucks...and were much more suitable for off-pavement operation because of that!
When doing these major suspension/steering mods as are popular (such as SOA), that is all done seat-of the-pants with little/no regard for proper suspension geometry to improve the oem condition, except when done by the pros who have the equipment and knowledge to do so. And they also are knowledgeable alignment folks.
The same thing happens when ya take a modern vehicle in for an alignment...some folks know how to do that and improve on oem settings. Others simply slam it on the rack, pay no attention to tire pressure, don't check to see if there is 800lbs of kid's soccer gear in the trunk and a dead body. They just run it through asap, try and upsell that every part is worn out, and then botch the whole deal so it's worse than before they touched it.
Doing an proper axle cut and turn is much more involved (if you are going to do it correctly) than grinding welds, applying brute force, and dribblin' more weld material on the tubes. It involves a perfectly level reference surface to work from, some precision measuring instruments, much knowledge of proper suspension/steering geometry, an offset in the turn (side-to-side) if the rig is gonna be used for a dd on the road, proper suspension loading when making the initial geometric changes, etc. Then after the rig is completed and loaded in it's normal "stance", the entire alignment should be checked and specs recorded to see how close the target was hit.
Pro's do all that...hobbyists just cut and turn and hope for the best.
The difference in a "loaded" "0" degree caster setting on both sides, vs. Say 5 degrees positive caster, is enormous as far as straight line stability and self-centering of the steering system. Night and day!
There are many factors which affect actual "effective caster"...bent/twisted frame, bent axle housing, bent wheels, sacked/bent/mis-matched springs, damaged spindle assembly, loose wheel bearings, upper ball joints seats and settings, and very important...proper weight distribution and load under actual driving conditions. Suspension geometry and alignment is all a compromise except in purpose-built motor vehicles such as left hand turn only circle track stuff, straight-line drag rigs, etc.
And then...there are those other two factors that haven't been mentioned...camber...and toe!
One of the reasons it was done was because of the fairly enormous front end weight onna sii, pickups and t'alls have the same thing going on, but the weight distribution is marginally "better" (not much!!!).
Having an oem caster setup as on the sii 4x4 simply makes the steering (whether manual or power assist) feel "light", a desirable consumer concern. But it also makes the dam thing real squirrelly to drive down the highway generally speaking. Always keep in mind...when dealing with ihc shit...these are trucks and bear no resemblance to passenger car handling and road manners either back then...or now.
Ihc never properly matched suspension/steering geometry with power steering effort and steering wheel size in a cohesive manner. Again...these were trucks...and were much more suitable for off-pavement operation because of that!
When doing these major suspension/steering mods as are popular (such as SOA), that is all done seat-of the-pants with little/no regard for proper suspension geometry to improve the oem condition, except when done by the pros who have the equipment and knowledge to do so. And they also are knowledgeable alignment folks.
The same thing happens when ya take a modern vehicle in for an alignment...some folks know how to do that and improve on oem settings. Others simply slam it on the rack, pay no attention to tire pressure, don't check to see if there is 800lbs of kid's soccer gear in the trunk and a dead body. They just run it through asap, try and upsell that every part is worn out, and then botch the whole deal so it's worse than before they touched it.
Doing an proper axle cut and turn is much more involved (if you are going to do it correctly) than grinding welds, applying brute force, and dribblin' more weld material on the tubes. It involves a perfectly level reference surface to work from, some precision measuring instruments, much knowledge of proper suspension/steering geometry, an offset in the turn (side-to-side) if the rig is gonna be used for a dd on the road, proper suspension loading when making the initial geometric changes, etc. Then after the rig is completed and loaded in it's normal "stance", the entire alignment should be checked and specs recorded to see how close the target was hit.
Pro's do all that...hobbyists just cut and turn and hope for the best.
The difference in a "loaded" "0" degree caster setting on both sides, vs. Say 5 degrees positive caster, is enormous as far as straight line stability and self-centering of the steering system. Night and day!
There are many factors which affect actual "effective caster"...bent/twisted frame, bent axle housing, bent wheels, sacked/bent/mis-matched springs, damaged spindle assembly, loose wheel bearings, upper ball joints seats and settings, and very important...proper weight distribution and load under actual driving conditions. Suspension geometry and alignment is all a compromise except in purpose-built motor vehicles such as left hand turn only circle track stuff, straight-line drag rigs, etc.
And then...there are those other two factors that haven't been mentioned...camber...and toe!
Pleil
Member
Thanks we cut and turned the axle a long time ago so I forget how much positive caster we added. I did have an allignment but since have added lift shackles which I know messes with allignment. I have noticed it pulls slightly to the right as well. The steering box actually seems like it has quieted down after a week or so of use.
I know this article is old but I had a similar problem on a none spring over axle. Mine turned out to be the ball joints with improperly installed shims. It would turn ok but the tension on the ball joints would not allow it to return to center naturally. I'm only mentioning this in case someone does a search and finds this. Of course if they haven't changed the ball joints between when it didn't act like this and when it started it most likely wouldn't be them.
Rich
Rich