SL and SJ rated oils

tasthree

New member
While running some errands and looking for some cheap flushing oil for a current resurrection project, I came accross a few oils. Az had some peak 10w-40 with api sl rating. Tsc had some traveller 10w-40 oil with api sl rating made by I think warren. Ace hardware had store brand made by I think olympic. The ace 20w-50 had sl rating and the 10w-40 had "what the" sj rating. Would these be old stock that just hasn't rotated thru the stock because these are odd weights for most people and I live in a small town. I don't know how to read any date codes on them. Reason being is I have a few old vehicles that get driven very little and just can't justify the cost of oils like swepco. These are at least half the cost of swepco not including the cost of shipping. If they are nos and not to old I was thinking of stocking up on some of it for oil changes because of sitting time and not milage. I'm especially curious about the ace 10w-40 with the sj rating. The bottles look new with no dust settled on them. Thanks
 
Older engines that get very little use are prime candidates for the premium oils sold by swepco and trc texas refinery corp

One of the main ingredients that our old engines need is zinc. In the newer oils zinc has been all but eliminated because it poisons the catalytic convertors on new engines.

Without the zinc you will be more prone to spin cam, rod, and/or main bearings on restart because there will be very little lube left on the bearing surfaces.

In other words, you need a lube oil that has properties in it that will keep a film of lubrication on everything after the engine has been shut down.

One of the real advantages of using trc products is they provide free engine oil analysis that can tell you what is going on inside your engine. The eoa will also tell you when it is time to change your oil.
 
Thanks marko. I am aware of the need for older engines with flat tappet lifters and the need for zinc. I am also aware of the newer sn and cj oils lacking it thus me asking about these oils with sl and sj api ratings. My newest vehicle is a 99 and at this point without the current project for my daughter, I currently have to maintain six vehicles for my family. For us in these times I just can't justify the cost of oils like swepco on the ones that do not get run much. For example our 71 Bronco is not tagged and is used mostly for trail riding. Between my health and budget we haven't been able to go trail riding for nearly three years. Another example is our 67 chevelle. Its tagged but up for sale so we don't drive it much from fear of damaging it. They are both due for a oil change. So to put a expensive oil like swepco in them just to mostly sit is a waste to me when I could possible use these oils I just found at a measurable savings. So I was just trying to be thrifty and was curious if these were useable old stock still on the shelf with adequet zinc levels. Thanks.
 
In reference to the api ratings sl/sm/sn:

due to the influence of the epa and governmental regulations regarding phosphorous and zinc in engine oil, the oil specification was changed from sl to sm, then a few years ago to sn. This created some confusion on the part of consumers because previously oil formulations actually "improved" as the ratings changed, however, as you know this time (as far as friction modifiers are concerned) it went backwards. However due to the way the spec is written, oils which are made to conform to sm or sn are mandated to be "backwards compatible." that is a very misleading statement because engines made prior to 2007, and particularly engines which have flat tappet cams can suffer the consequences of having a reduced amount of zinc in them.

The way it is written is that sm/sn oils are not to have more than 900 ppm of zinc, so that might clarify the thought that the zinc was entirely, or almost entirely eliminated - that is simply not true.

When you are looking at the label of an oil and it says for example meets sn, sm, sl, and others farther back in alpha sequence, the oil you are looking at will have no more than 900 ppm of zinc in the formulation.

Personally, I would not recommend the use of any oil which is a 10w40 no matter who the manufacturer of the product is. The vi improvers used in that weight wear out rather quickly and that can cause damage as well.... That is unless you drain it very frequently.

There are a few lubricant manufacturers besides swepco who still make the sl grade for older engines, but it might be very hard to find. We do not recommend using engine oil which has been manufactured more than 5 years ago, and since the api designation changed in 2007, it would be marginal if the product was made at the tail end of the sl run. You have no idea what the compostion of the oil would be unless you checked with the distributor, jobber, or the manufacturer. Some manufacturers can supply the zinc information if they have the quality control number of the batch it was made from, but most oils on the shelf will not include that information. The sj mentioned, if made back when it was the top of the gasoline rating would be much older than 5 years....so be careful on what you choose.

As far as "price" is concerned; swepco does not compete with other products on a price basis. Their products are manufactured from the blending of high-quality (high-cost) ingredients. This is done purposely to provide our customers with a product that will provide the utmost in protection, and long life, even in the most demanding applications. So back when the "best" formulations, such as sl were in effect, the swepco price was higher than the other brands, but it was "worth it." the swepco 306 engine oil which is referenced not only has the higher zinc content @ >1,600 ppm (+ -), it also incorporates the use of higher quality base stocks which resist heat and oxidation, and a completely better additive package. It also meets the diesel ci-4 specification. If you can find a diesel oil which is not rated cj-4, and the highest rating is ci-4, you might be able to use that and get better results than using a gasoline rated sn/sm oil - the zinc would typically be around 1,200 ppm. Those oils will not match up with the quality that swepco offers, but it is a cheaper alternative for you in the situations you have described.

It all boils down to "getting your monies worth!"

this subject comes up all the time, it is certainly confusing, I hope I have been able to give you some education in the history of modern engine oil specifications.
 
Thanks swepco. I went thru a similar process about oil a few years ago. I stocked up on some back then which is now depleated resulting in my current situation. So I did a little search on the current oil situation in particular the zddp content. This subject matter is discussed all over the internet in forums with anything that has a engine in it. One could get a bad case of tmi trying to seperate the wheat from the tare. At this point I have a few observation or curiosities I would like to address. I called the number on the peak bottle and the rep said the date code was from 2010. Called warren who makes the tsc traveller oil and maybe the peak oil also. That rep said the traveller oil date code was from 2009. Now here is where it gets interesting. Both reps said their unopened oil containers basically have no shelf life. I'm aware of the oxidation and settling concerns so it'd be hard for me to really believe the oil would be good forever. The warren rep, who said he was a longtime formulator, went into depth somewhat about their blending process and how age dosen't affect it. You said its not recomended to use oil manufactured more than five years ago. Internet search search goes from one year to no shelf life. To confusing and over my pay scale to debate. But at your five year limit I'm good to go for now on the age of these oils. I also didn't get any indication that there was any issue with 10w-40. So could you please explain what exactly is it about the viscosity index improvers in 10w-40 versers other weights that make it susceptible to wearing out quicker. You stated " unless you drain it very quickly" so if a 10w-40 was used what would be the time frame to change it. I usually start to think about oil changes on my daily drivers at 3k. Who knows where it ends up at by the time it does get changed. I would also like to inquire as to why your products aren't available at any local retail. Thanks
 
Changing the subject a little but to add to this thread for anyone to chime in on and for reference purposes. I would like to know is there any mechanical fix for this issue? It appears the main parts damaged from lack of zddp is flat tappet cams and hyd lifter combination. As I understand it the higher the valve spring pressure the worst the problem. Are there any roller cams, lifter and holder setups or something like a nitrided cam/lifter available for these IH gassers that May reduce this issue. Don't know how a roller lifter and the lifter holder would work with the type of oil rail used on these things. If we ever had to replace the cam in this Scout I would consider this option. Kind of like when they took the lead out of gas. The main parts affected were exhaust seats getting pounded so hardened exhaust seats were used as a fix. I had to have them installed on the 462 heads I had reworked that we used on our chevelle.
 
Tasthree;

I'm glad you were able to find out about the oils you were considering, normally one does not have that ability, so I'm glad that my suggestion helped you some in that area.

As far as shelf life is concerned, our policy is basically stated for unopened containers, although in most cases, smaller size units such as quarts or gallons will probably exceed the 5 year life, swepco is very conservative and always goes on the side of safety and quality rather than just throwing a number out there. Opened containers, especially drums, kegs and pails will probably age faster than closed containers which we are talking about, and for the reasons you mentioned.

With regard to the 10w40 issue, it is not a well known fact that back in the mid-late 80's when GM was recommending 10w40, they started having a lot of problems in the top end of the engines. As it was told to me, at that time, they pulled approx 200 brands off the shelf and tested them and found that about 1% of the brands tested actually met the requirements of the api for meeting the specification of the 10w40 in place at the time. A "secret agreement" was made, as it was related to me that GM did not disclose the brands of the oil which failed, and from that point forward started recommending 10w30 (which a few years later then went to 5w30 for better fuel economy reasons). It was deemed that the culprit was mostly found to be that the viscosity index improver of the 10w40 did not hold up, and after awhile in service it could actually break down to the point that you were running on a 10wt oil. There is no-time given as to the longevity of the product and for me to make a statement on that, would not be wise. I do not believe that you will find this anywhere in writing as it was not officially disclosed by GM....but as you know, most other major oems followed suit with the same recommendations. We are now faced with some oils being made to serve as "0w20," and even as much as "0w50." those oil weights cannot be made with a straight mineral base, and must have at least a semi-synthetic formulation. Here again, this has been pressured by the epa for increased fuel economy, and the oems who recommend those weights have built their engines to meet those parameters.

Size wise, swepco is a very small company compared to the majors like chevron, shell, bp, etc. However the quality of the products has world renown and it is sold in over 70 countries areound the world. The amazing thing is that swepco does absolutely no advertising, but relies on it's sales force of independent representatives, such as myself to "get the word out" to people. A lot of salesmen, excuse me "salespersons" to be politically correct, do not get into the retail oriented line of business, such as in auto and truck repair shops, or auto parts stores, or in racing applications, and they stick primarily with industrial applications. I, and several others like myself find that the automotive end of the business is more steady as far as repeat orders are concerned providing they take the time to develop it in their locations. By developing it, it also means to teach the "dealer" the pros and cons of using it. In the case of myself when developing Jeff at ihon, it wasn't very long as he tried all of the products in his own equipment before he started using them in the shop and offering them for sale through the on-line store he has. I can assure you that his prices are well within reason, and are very much competitive with any other on-line company you might want to call up on your computer.

Because of the fact that swepco does not advertise as a corporation, you will not normally see products in a lot of areas, those that you do would be because there is a local salesman there who services the account.... These would normally be found in stores which carry high-performance products, and probably moreso to do with off-road hobbyists. If you had not heard of swepco before now, but saw it on the shelf of your local parts store, the first thing a "regular customer" would look at would be that the price is much higher than the other products on the shelf, without any explanation - and unfortunately most people "buy cheap."

thanks for your post, I hope that you and any other readers will be able to use the information offered and base the decisions accordingly.
 
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