Ouch!

7

77 Traveler

New member
Well went to go offroading today and in the first 100 ft of the trail the rear leaf spring mount on the front passenger side peeled the frame rail like an orange. Thanks to tie down straps and tow straps holding the axle in place I was able to drive it back to pavement and have it towed home.

So what is the recommendation to correct this. Thinking that I need to rebox the frame or at least the 2"x3" piece that peeled. Than maybe a reverse shackle kit, but it states a long travel drive shaft is recommended. It's a little expensive for both reverse shackle and drive shaft, and I don't have a welder.
 
Aparantly you had not added gussets behind them. That is a mandatory thing for any rig that is gonna be wheeled.
 
77 traveler said:
... I don't have a welder.
Click to expand...

I'm sure most people will agree with you - reboxing/sleeving the frame and "updating" your intended suspension/driveline while you're there is probably the best idea, but I know what it's like to lack the tools for the job. And by "update," I mean a lot of added metal/strength, so there goes cost-friendly.

The rest of the frame & all mounts should at least be subjected to a guud inspection of likely stressed areas - that should only cost time plus a couple bucks if you're interested in abrasive cleaning and eyeballing for cracks under rust/crud. That just piles more on top of the other costs if you find any suspicious stress activity, so that's incentive. I know I couldn't handle this kinda trouble, I'd have to just set it aside and leave it broke't.


But there are always at least two ways to do something, and one is not going to be cheep!
 
I wasn't hitting anything extremely hard yet, just easy to moderate trails. No I didn't add gussets or anything yet just the lift and new bushings. Well I guess I might be doing this soon along with the required repairs to get it back on the trail.
 
The spring mounts on the frame of any Scout 80, 800, or II are a known weak point, always was beginning with day one, ihc never addressed that issue. Compare the mounts for the Scout line with spring mounts for a pickall and ya can readily see this was major cost reduction taken to the max. The "swing shackle-forward" design certainly adds to the stress...wonder why that was never used in a pickall or other vocational vehicle?

Same goes for the rear spring mounts on the Scout line.

Scout spring mounts will fail even in normal street use. I'd venture that well over 50% of the Scout II rigs still in street use have cracked frames or tweeked spring mounts if closely inspected, unless they have been repaired and beefed with some sort of gusseting.

This is a really simple fix unless the frame is actually distorted. If the frame itself is damaged, then it needs to be repaired in a responsible manner with plating added for reinforcement once spring hanger alignment is verified.

Once the frame itself is back in shape, then the spring hanger should be beefed with gussets both directions and on both sides.

Same holds true for beefing the frame at the point where the steering gear mounts, do that before it fails...it will!
 
michael mayben said:
the spring mounts on the frame of any Scout 80, 800, or II are a known weak point, always was beginning with day one, ihc never addressed that issue. Compare the mounts for the Scout line with spring mounts for a pickall and ya can readily see this was major cost reduction taken to the max. The "swing shackle-forward" design certainly adds to the stress...wonder why that was never used in a pickall or other vocational vehicle?

Same goes for the rear spring mounts on the Scout line.

Scout spring mounts will fail even in normal street use. I'd venture that well over 50% of the Scout II rigs still in street use have cracked frames or tweeked spring mounts if closely inspected, unless they have been repaired and beefed with some sort of gusseting.

This is a really simple fix unless the frame is actually distorted. If the frame itself is damaged, then it needs to be repaired in a responsible manner with plating added for reinforcement once spring hanger alignment is verified.

Once the frame itself is back in shape, then the spring hanger should be beefed with gussets both directions and on both sides.

Same holds true for beefing the frame at the point where the steering gear mounts, do that before it fails...it will!
Click to expand...

No frame distortion just a 2in x 2in piece peeled out of the bottom of the frame rail. Didn't drive it much after it broke just 16 miles to the pavement to get towed. I do plan to plate the frame and patch the peeled out spot. I will be ordering a reverse shckle kit soon since it will improve the ride, as well as change the mounting. I think this will be best solution. I will also order or make gussets to rienforce the rear mounts. Any pictures of the reinforcement of the gearbox area of the frame? I will do this when I replace the box or adjust a little play out. I will try and take pictures when I get time to fix it. I think I might be done this season I have a lot of money in it this year already. Plus not sure how to get it welded maybe I will buy a welder and do it myself. I have welded a few trailers and and other stuff before.
 
This link shows our steering box/frame reinforcement plate:

rpt Scout II steering box reinforcement plate - International Scout parts

The problem with the spring hanger rip-out is not the frame design, it's the shitball spring hanger mounting methodology itself! Analyze the forces acting upon that point under any driving condition and you can readily see what a complete crapball design that is!

The failure of the frame at the steering gear mount occurs even with oem tires and loads. That is a frame engineering issue that ihc should have corrected after a few years of production but never did. Even though the oem frame is boxed, that does not prevent the problem, everyone who is driving a Scout II should inspect that point on a regular basis and if cracking is noted, then it should be repaired in an appropriate manner.

Again...pickall frames were not boxed (they didn't need it) and they do not have frame failure at the steering gear mount point due to the design used.
 
I had the same thing happen to me in town going around a round about.... Boy did I feel stupid.

The 'fix' is to have it welded all back together with patch material used if needed on the frame. Then add a gusset from the back of the hanger to the frame to keep it from happening again.

Add a gusset to the other side at the same time and beef up the factory welds if you have time.

I paid about $100 to have mine fixed 8 years ago. If you have a friend with a welder and some skills it could be fixed in a few hours.
 
Hey guys,
does a "straight steer" help out w/the frame in that area?
I bought one a long time ago from at scouts. It runs from rail to rail on the inside and uses two grade 8 bolts from the steering box.
 
There are many variations of the "straight steer" deal that various fabricators have done over the years. Some are real wimpy in my opinion and do nothing to stiffen the front section of the frame.

Others are quite beefy and will stiffen the frame in the area of the steering box mount and the entire section of the frame adjacent too and ahead of the front engine mounts.

The biggest problem with the marginal frame design regarding sii is when folks add a springover or high arch springs in redneck fashion and don't reinforce the spring hanger segments of the frame just as you have found. That is also a problem area on a stock vehicle.

Same for greatly accentuating the forces on the steering gear mount on the frame when somewhat larger tires on wider wheels are added, that greatly expands the tread footprint, in turn placing much more stress on the steering gear and frame.

Left alone, the entire frame system is marginal for it's intended market/purpose in the 70's. When these rigs go under the redneck axe regarding "lift" and "mods" and "wheels" and "tires" then shit starts happening in an accelerated form. Folks will spend money for bling like wheels and tires, they won't spend money for proper frame reinforcement until it breaks.
 
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