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    Owner/Operator

No Spark on EFI Traveler

cbmind

Member
Hi bill, here's what I'm seeing after ctsa replacement and fuel pump replacement-

[/img]

It wants to start, spray on injectors seems better. Fuel freely returning back to tank.

Above snip is with key on.

Been looking for voltage checklist, thought I had it. Searched, not finding it over on binderplanet or here. Continuing to look.
 

cbmind

Member
Hi bill, here's what I'm seeing after cts replacement and fuel pump replacement-

[/img]

It wants to start, spray on injectors seems better. Fuel freely returning back to tank.

Above snip is with key on.
 

Bill USN-1

F.I. Moderator
Are you performing the initial setup procedures?
Your tps is -4.6% but should be at around 0%.
Normally I shoot for 0.2%

also noticed the o2 is .031 do you have a heated o2? If not then the voltage with key on should be .450
is your system grounds bolted to the engine?

That is one of my old, about 12yrs ago, bins that afi copied and was selling with their kits.

Voltage checks attached if needed.

Do you have the purple wire going to the small post on the starter?

Did you try to add a little gas in the top with the injectors still connected to see if it helps?
 

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cbmind

Member
are you performing the initial setup procedures?
admittedly, not really. Distributor timed, check. That's it. Will go back and follow procedures one by one and report back.
Your tps is -4.6% but should be at around 0%.
Normally I shoot for 0.2%
tps is unmolested from when vehicle was running. I can adjust this figure by loosening the screws and rolling the tps, correct?

Also noticed the o2 is .031 do you have a heated o2? If not then the voltage with key on should be .450
yes, have heated o2 sensor. In driver side header collector (have headers)

Is your system grounds bolted to the engine?
yes.
That is one of my old, about 12yrs ago, bins that afi copied and was selling with their kits.
afi chip and harness purchased in 2010 I think.

Voltage checks attached if needed.
thanks!

Do you have the purple wire going to the small post on the starter?
crank sensor wire? If so, mine is a light tan connected to the s terminal on the starter solenoid.

Did you try to add a little gas in the top with the injectors still connected to see if it helps?
I did. Fires right away, sounds like crap, then dies. Only started twice on it's own fuel supply, after reinstalling old afi supplied pump and new filters.
 

cbmind

Member
Update-
followed initial start up procedures from binderplanet injection board.

Truck not running so I can't execute all.

#8 cylinder at tdc on compression stroke.
Trailing edge of rotor at leading edge of #8 terminal verified with timing light on crank key off.
Installed 15psi gauge on TBI fuel outlet. Wrapped gauge with key on. Curious.
Installed 100psi gauge on TBI fuel inlet. Read 40psi with key on, pump running.
Found a vacuum barb left uncapped at front of TBI (small one to passenger side of large one). Capped it.
Adjusted throttle cable, took slack out.
Rolled tps sensor to read .55v with key only.
Map reading around 4.8v
see below

O2 fluctuates between number shown and .480v
my c9 wire at computer is tan and is connected to the s terminal of the starter solenoid.
Not running the Holley regulator or fuel pump, reinstalled afi supplied pump from original harness purchase.
Relocated my 8 pin module to the ac bracket, still on aluminum heat sink. Allowed me to get it away from the ignition components and plug wires as discussed over the phone.

This is where I'm at bill.

Picked up a digital volt meter tonight, will start checks.

Btw, on starting, I never here the iac engage....

Have not attempted to start it sense these things were changed.

Am I on the right path?

Thank you,

chris
 

Bill USN-1

F.I. Moderator
I'm a little confused.
For fuel pressure the return should be 0 and the inlet 12.
So if you don't have that then you need to start there.
The pump has nothing to do with pressure. That is set by the regulator in the TBI.

Don't assume your gauge is correct either.

The isp's are on this site also.
If you install the jumper from a to b on the aldl connector and turn the key on then the iac should drive closed. You should be able to look in the port above it and see the pintle end poking thru. Then remove the jumper and it will move back to the park position.

To preset the throttle blade just use a 1/4" wide strip of paper as a feeler gauge between the throttle blade and the wall.
Then reset the tps to the .2%
 

cbmind

Member
if you hold the coil wire about 1" away from the manifold you should get a good blue spark jumping as you crank the engine.

I'm a little confused.
For fuel pressure the return should be 0 and the inlet 12.
So if you don't have that then you need to start there.
The pump has nothing to do with pressure. That is set by the regulator in the TBI.
I'm confused too. The e2182 pump has an outlet pressure of 90psi. The regulator is there to bring that pressure down to usable levels. I will take apart my fuel lines and blow them out, check connection at tank, check connections at TBI to make sure they aren't clogged. Not sure what else to do with this. If this doesn't resolve the issue, I would think that my TBI regulator is bad.

Don't assume your gauge is correct either.
they are new autometer units, all I have for reference. Other than a FI tester, don't think anything else would be more suitable.
The isp's are on this site also.
If you install the jumper from a to b on the aldl connector and turn the key on then the iac should drive closed. You should be able to look in the port above it and see the pintle end poking thru. Then remove the jumper and it will move back to the park position.
will do this.
To preset the throttle blade just use a 1/4" wide strip of paper as a feeler gauge between the throttle blade and the wall.
Then reset the tps to the .2%
will do this. Use idle air screw on throttle linkage side, correct? This is what I've found through searching.
is there any benefit to adjusting, once tested, the iac even if the motor is not warmed up, I.e., cold because it won't start?
 

Bill USN-1

F.I. Moderator
Pumps don't put out pressure. They flow fuel and are capable of flowing the fuel up to a set pressure rating.
If you hook up your gauge to the outlet of the pump and run the hose in a bucket you will have 0psi.
If you squeeze the end of the hose you will build pressure, just like your garden hose. It flow free until you put your thumb over the end and then it build pressure and sprays a stream.

Your thumb is the regulator that sets how much pressure builds in the hose.

The regulator is on the return side of the injectors to maintain the pressure at 12psi at the injectors.

The pump has to be able to maintain that 12psi with the amount of fuel the injectors spray.
Any excess is returned to the tank and should have 0psi restriction.

So....
Inlet to TBI is 12psi and return is 0 measured at the TBI.
If return is high then the inlet will be higher.

Did you rebuild the TBI with a new regulator or it just a junkyard pull?

Set the throttle blades with the paper strip and leave it there until the system is working.
Then you can go back and do the isps with a warm engine.
 

cbmind

Member
pumps don't put out pressure. They flow fuel and are capable of flowing the fuel up to a set pressure rating.
If you hook up your gauge to the outlet of the pump and run the hose in a bucket you will have 0psi.
If you squeeze the end of the hose you will build pressure, just like your garden hose. It flow free until you put your thumb over the end and then it build pressure and sprays a stream.

Your thumb is the regulator that sets how much pressure builds in the hose.

The regulator is on the return side of the injectors to maintain the pressure at 12psi at the injectors.

The pump has to be able to maintain that 12psi with the amount of fuel the injectors spray.
Any excess is returned to the tank and should have 0psi restriction.

So....
Inlet to TBI is 12psi and return is 0 measured at the TBI.
If return is high then the inlet will be higher.

Did you rebuild the TBI with a new regulator or it just a junkyard pull?

Set the throttle blades with the paper strip and leave it there until the system is working.
Then you can go back and do the isps with a warm engine.

Gotcha.

TBI us a junkyard pull, sent off and rebuilt by turbo city prior to original install. Rebuilt, flowmatched injectors, rebus he'd throttle assembly, etc. Essentially a new unit.
 
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cbmind

Member
So I pulled the TBI retun fuel line from TBI outlet and tank connection, blew it out, no debris.

Disconnected at TBI inlet and pump, blew it out, no debris.

Checked port at tank I have the return line connected to, clear. Re- installed both lines.

Set throttle blades.

Same issue, pouring gas from injectors.

Removed TBI from intake adapter, inspected. Fuel regulator has gas residue on the outer portion "can." blew out inlet and outlet fuel connections on TBI. Reconnected, same pouring gas.

Decided to pick up a TBI rebuild kit at az with replacement injectors.

Stupid question- I asked them for a set of injectors for a 91' Chevy k1500 with 5.7l. What I got are the "red" injectors in return. My originals are the orange. I know the color dictates the psi, model year/ etc on oems, but does this apply to remanufactured units as well?

Tore down my TBI last night, spider web within the fuel regulator can. I had the fuel lines disconnected for several months with no cover on them. Guessing the spider crawled into one of the ports trying to make a home. Is the can wet during operation? I can't tell if it is just looking at the construction of the unit.

So for now, I'm replacing the injectors, rebuilding the TBI with the kit components.
 

Bill USN-1

F.I. Moderator
Did you check the inlet and return pressures as discussed?
If so, what were they?

What do you mean gas is pouring from the injectors?
If you needed to add extra fuel to get it to start then that would tell me not enough gas is pouring from the injectors.

The color of the electrical terminals makes no difference. The factory injectors had paint marks on top that indicated the part.


There should be an FAQ that shows how to remove the injectors and make the regulator adjustable.

If the spider was around the spring then it will have no effect. If it was above the diaphragm then it will.

There's some specifics on how it needs to go back together or you will have problems.
I haven't finished my rebuild write up yet but here's a few tips.

The swivel button on the diaphragm goes against the seat in the housing.
The can has a square notch that must be lined up on the housing.
Use the alignment screws on the holes opposite the alignment tabs on the housing to help hold all 4 corners.







The orings and the spacer go in as shown and must go in the housing first and not on the injector.
The small filter must be seated flush so the oring does not catch it.
Use a thin film of grease to lube the injector prior to installing so the orings slide over.
There is an alignment pin on each injector that must match the slot in the housing. They are opposite on each side.
The injector must seat all the way down. You will feel it pop into place. Do not damage the lower oring or fuel will spray with just the key on.











Use a 1/4" drill to open up the tps holes to allow adjustment.



 

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cbmind

Member
Pressure was still super high after blowing out lines, no reduction that I could tell.

Was reading 90psi inlet, 50psi outlet.

To me this indicated something wrong in that section of TBI, possibly an obstruction.

Took TBI off and dismantled for inspection as last resort.

For pouring/ dripping gas- fuel from injectors was nor a spray, but more like a stream or pour, as if someone was pouring fuel out of a pitcher.

Thanks for the pics. Will do the fpr mod while it's off.

Thank you for the injector id heads up.

On another note, screens at bottom of injectors were gummed up somewhat, not helping I'm sure.
 

FDChappie

Active member
After all that fuel being poured down your engine, you might consider changing the oil once you get it fixed, because most of that fuel is probably now down in the crankcase thinning out your oil.
 

cbmind

Member
Thanks, will do that.

Bill, same situation after TBI rebuild, replacement injectors, blew out lines and verified no restriction. My lines are -6 an braided hose to and from. Gauge reads 0psi on return. On crank getting 50- 60psi from pump to TBI. Injectors are still dripping or pouring, not a spray. Throttle blades cracked 1/4" tps reads .63v
 

Bill USN-1

F.I. Moderator
We May need to back up and cover a couple basics.
Fuel pressure.
When testing the inlet fuel pressure you should have the fitting t's into the line just before the fitting on the drivers side of the throttle body.
The fuel should flow freely through the t.
If there is any doubt then simply connect the t inline and then run the outlet into a bucket and make sure the t is not creating any restriction. That means there should be no pressure reading on the gauge with the outlet of the t going into a gas can.

If good, then connect the t to the drivers side of the throttle body. It should be a 3/8" hose.
Then run a hose from the outlet of the throttle body(passengers side) to the gas can.
Cycle the key to run and the pressure should be 11-13psi.
If high then you have a problem in your throttle body. Either a port is plugged or the regulator was turned up so much that the spring is coil bound and making the pressure max out.

If the pressure is 11-13psi then all is good in the TBI then connect the return line and check again. The inlet pressure should not change.

This is how I test all my rebuilds.










For the throttle blade setting...
Apparently I did not explain it clearly.
The 1/4" wide strip of paper should be used as a feeler gauge. That means you slip the thin side of the paper between the blade and the wall to ensure the blades are not closed up and blocking all fuel and air from getting thru.
You do not set them to the 1/4' wide gap. If you engine started it would scream to wide open rpms.
 

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cbmind

Member
Hi bill, I haven't given up on this but had to mobilize for work. Just wanted to give an update. Leaving town for a few months.

Thanks for all your help.
 
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