• To ALL forum users - As of late I have been getting quite a few private messages with questions about build ups here on the forum, or tech questions about your personal project. While I appreciate the interest, sending me a private message about these topics distracts from, and undermines the purpose of having a forum here. During the day I wear many hats as a small business owner-operator and I work tirelessly to provide the absolute best service possible to you, our valued customer. When I created this forum I rounded up some of the best minds I knew so that any tech question you might have could be asked and answered by either myself or one of my highly experienced moderators, this way the next time this same question is asked the answer can be easily found and utilized by the next IH enthusiast having the same question. This allows me the freedom to run the day to day operations of the business and minimize the impact to shipments and shop activities that these distractions can cause. It is of the up most importance for me to complete the daily tasks in order to best take care of you our customer, all the while providing you a forum to get the level advice and input you have come to expect and deserve from the premier IH shop in the country.

    So with that I ask that anyone with a question about one of our build ups or a general tech question to please use the forum as it was intended. I am absolutely available by telephone to answer your questions as well but at times may direct you back to our website to better field your question or questions. Most other private messages I will be glad to answer for you.

    Thank you for your understanding.

    Jeff Ismail
    Owner/Operator

MPFI in the works

Been tinkering with a mpfi setup for a 345 that Jeff's building for me.

Motor specs:
345 bored .030
ported exhaust
camcraft custom efi, hi-torque, mileage cam
rpt aluminum manifold
2" TBI base, 19# Ford injectors, intank fuel pump, afpr, vss, egr, knock sensor
modified IH Holley dizzy using a GM est for computer controlled timing.

Just got the rpt manifold back from the polishing shop. Manifold got polished & ceramic clear coated. Shop claims ceramic clear coat good to 800f. The clear coat is going to save me from having to polished it periodically. Especially on the motor with everything attached. Before and after pics attached.




Also started modding the ECM for emulation with the ostrich. Will post pics of the ECM soon.
 

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ihpartsjeff

Administrator & Owner
Staff member
Looks awesome louis! Can't wait to install it.

By the way I edited your last post to show the pics.
 
Thanks for fixing the pics and comments.

I was pleasantly surprise that the ceramic clear coat did not dull the polished finish. They say about 5-10% shine loss. Lets hope it holds up to temperature.

Jeff- they charged me $50 for the ceramic clear coat compared to the powder clear coat.

Bill - I am using the 16196344 ECM. Revised version of the famed 1227730.
 
On the ECM side of things, I plan on using the ostrich as much as possible to dial in the motor and not have to burn so May eproms. The ostrich emulates the eprom. With it plugged in the ECM, the ECM will read binary instructions from the ostrich. You change the binary in tunerpro rt and download to the ostrich on the fly. Well May be semi-on-the-fly because for this ECM, I think you have to pull over and power the computer on/off (ignition) to read new binary. At least this was the case for the TBI 747 ECM I played with. We'll see when we get to it. But this should dramatically speed up the tuning process vs. Burning chips.

So after spending May hours on thirdgen.org and other websites searching, studying and re-reading everything 10+ times...... And I ain't joking!

I needed a speed density ECM with the correct memcal for a motor similar to my 345. In my case, I purchased the ECM with an incorrect memcal from ebay as I was not able to find an ECM with the correct 350 memcal (350 z28 camaros are very popular). I then purchased the correct memcal from gmpartsdirect.com. Pic of the ECM & memcal (v-6)




Pic of 2 memcals. Top is for an olds v6. Bottom is for a z28 350 camaro without the blue cover showing the eprom and the default circuitry (rt hand side) for error condition (limp home mode). The limp home mode is why you need to match up your engine size to the correct memcal. Otherwise you could be running way too lean in error conditions if you use a v6 memcal for a v8 application.

 

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On the memcal (bottom), notice that the eprom is soldered in the memcal assembly socket. To re-program the eprom, you can unsolder the eprom and put in an ic socket to make swaping eprom easy. But, after examining how fragile the whole assembly is and not exactly cheap to purchase, I got an adapter board. Pic showing adapter board (top) with an eprom. The memcal plugs into the pins on adapter board.



And the whole assembly goes in the ECM. Basically, the eprom on the memcal is not used. It's only there for the ride. The eprom on the adapter board with the zif is what the ECM reads.



Here a pic of the factory setup (right) and the modified setup (left). No soldering and very clean compared to modification to a TBI 747 ECM for ease of swaping eproms using a zif

 

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Now for emulation, eprom comes out of the zif



And here's with the ostrich plugged in.



On a 747 TBI setup using the ostrich, I noticed a problem with electromagnetic noise interference from the ignition. Once in a while, binary will not verify and the ECM sets an eprom error flag. Not a big problem to reset the ECM once in a while but I am going to figure out how to shield this setup. I think em noise gets in through the cable
 

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So on to the eprom binary side of things. I needed to generate a binary that would work for initial startup of the motor. I finally got around to changing the stock camaro z28 tpi binary (aujp) to what I think will work for the initial startup of the motor and will tune it further from there.

I read the aujp binary from the memcal . 1st thing I noticed reviewing aujp binary was there are twice as many switches, constants & tables compared to a TBI binary. One can really get lost in tuning with this many parameters to tweak.

Here are some pics for comparision:

tpi binary:


And a TBI binary:


I started with the obvious modifications like:
- disable vats
- disable tcc lockup (manual trans)
- disable carbon canister purge(ccp)
- lower fuel cutoff rpm (built in rev-limiter!)
- closed loop timer
- idle speed
- ignition timing

I also disabled some sensor flags temporarily until the real tuning begins like:
- egr
- vss

I left most of the parameters intact. It should work for starting the 345.
 

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On a side subject, I figured out the problem with the ostrich & the ECM setting the eprom error flag all the time. It was not em noise interference like I had though.

Craig moates and thirdgen.org fixed me up. You have to turn off checksum checking for it to work properly. This ostrich device is so cool. This afternoon, I was park in my driveway, motor running and changing parameters on the fly. I had though that this was not possible with the 7747 TBI system. Don't do this driving around. Because as I was modifying the binary and uploading it to the ostrich, the motor surges and wants to shut off.

Another thing, this setup is sensitive. Make sure you have no dangling cables. Cable movement will cause the ECM to set an error flag and you'll be in limp home mode. This is because the ECM polls eprom data constantly.
 

Bill USN-1

F.I. Moderator
This good info.
I have been tuning on the fly on my 1227747 ECM for years.
I don't have any of the problems you encounter.
I have an ECM with the GM eprom socket replaced with a standard socket and I plug my romulator straight into it.
I have it zip tied to the top of the ECM.
I can change any parameter on the fly with no interuption of engine function.
The romulator takes the place of the chip so it is constantly in use.

If you make a change to the bin file it takes effect real time.

The only time there is an interuption is if you try to upload/download the entire bin file from the laptop while the engine is running.

I just assumed the osterich worked the same way. It is advertised as a realtime tuner not a stop and load changes tuner.










 
Long time no update . So here's the latest.....

After many changes to the original bin, I had to finalize the bin for the initial start of the motor. The vats security and the complexity of the $8d bin had me doubting if the motor was going to start because I might have screwed up some setting. After debugging and fixing some electrical gremlins, the IHOnly north boys got the "evil bitch" to start. Jeff will provide his reasoning for giving it that name in the build update.

Then it was the f*ing 42 est error coming on kicking the ECM into "limp" mode. An msd6al was used in the ignition making debugging more complex...... Swapping another known est was not the answer....... Finally the ostrich was used to masked out the 42 error and the motor ran like a raped ape. Idled beautiful with 18" of vacumm. Have not road test yet.... Soon.... And will take care of the 42 error at a later date.

Here's a pic of the motor
 

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IronScout

Member
That is a beautiful engine compartment. It's been a long time since you've posted an update. I am very interested in putting a mpfi on my 79. I would love to see and read more about the process.

Thanks,
 
Compliments on the beautiful engine compartment should go to the ihonlynorth boys. I just told them what I needed in there and they made it all fit

there has been lots of tweaks to the FI system. Tpi is definitely more complexed than TBI. I have not had a chance to update this thread. Been busy working. I'll get to it when I have some downtime.
 
In mid nov 07, we trailered the "evil bitch" home from ihonlynorth, I ran it with#42 est error masked. It ran Rich, idles funny (hunts, high idles), loud and it pings at mid-load( unless I just feather the pedal or stomped on it. It didn't ping at those positions :winky: ) . I knew it had more issues than the #42 est error. But I didn't care. I haven't driven it in over 10 years, it was a thrilled to be in it again. It looks bitchin, smells new. The suspension setup with wider & slightly longer compliant springs & antisway bars made it ride really really nice and stable. I drove it around town, on the highway, every where for 2 days with a big grin on my face. Endless people giving thumbs up and asking me what year Bronco/Jeep it was. Girls are eyeing it even with my wife and my boy in the car seat. What a great time.


So next weekend it was back to reality. I needed to trace the #42 est error. It was intermittent. Sometimes it comes on right away, sometimes it takes a little longer. Certain bins will kick it in error mode, certain bin won't. I checked ECM wiriing voltage with key on and then with engine running. Voltage range looks good. Problem exist with and without the msd box. It was really odd. Nothing made sense :mad5: . I then took off the cowl cover to better inspect the wiring around the est. We mounted the est and the main electrical relays in waterproof boxes in the cowl area. As I was moving the wiring around I also tugged on the connections to make sure they're tight. I stumbled on the problem. The bypass wire pulled out. A loose wire crimp caused the intermittent problem. Damm! It drove me crazy for almost a good day. With the problem solved, the ping is even worst. The ECM is actually commanding timing based on the bin now. At least now it's doing what I expect it to do.
 
Now with the est error out of the way, it still had the following problems: surging idle , runs way Rich, and pings all over. Having the ostrich at this point is great. No more burning chips. Tune in real time. I backed off the timing a ton to get to a point where I can comfortably drive it without pings. It took a while to do. Drive and note rpm and vacumm (kpa) of ping, stop to change the spark table, drive again, and then repeat. Having a buddy drive while you change the table would be real handy. But still way better than having to do it by way of burning chips. I can't even imagine having to burn chips one by one. And if you ask why I did not use a knock sensor? There is one installed. But it picks up noises that are not knocks. I didn't want to deal with it & disabled it in the bin for the time being.

I was curious of why timing had to be backed off so much for it not to ping. I pulled out the compression gauge. 180 psi was what the gauge read. Wow, I didn't expect that. Should have gone with a larger cam. But with gas prices today& I had picked a camcraft fuel efficient grunt cam. I am going to tune for 87 octane even though I should be running 91. Also having steady 21" vacuum is cool. Really smooth idle.

IMG_1583.jpg
 
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Once the timing is somewhat under control, next on the list to get resolved is the idle problem. It's erratic. Sometimes it's at 1200, sometimes it's at 1500. Once in a while it will come down to 900 but never the commanded 650rpm in the bin. The motor was also hard to start when cold. Tps voltage checks out. Reseted the iac, set minimum idle speed. Nothing works. Voltage measurements at the ECM harness for iac is bad. Swaped in a spare iac , same results.

I noticed that afi's TBI and mpfi instructions had different wiring instructions for the inline 4 pin iac. I thought this is odd. I searched around the internet and stumbled on megasquirt's website. There is good info on GM's iac there. It turns out that there are 2 versions of the inline 4 pin iac. They are wired differently. Afi's mpfi instruction is incorrect for the inline 4 pin iac.

Next on the list is fuel tuning. This motor is running 19# injectors. 19# were on stock on 5.0 mustangs. 22.5# were stock on camaro z28 with the 350. 19# on a 345 is not a problem if you up the fuel pressure and and tune the ve tables accordingly right? Easy if you are familiar with tuning a tpi system and know your way around tunerprort. I am new at tpi tuning so I spent lots and lots of time searching and learning on thirdgen.org . I also found really good info at this website:

tunerpro rt - super_8d ecu manual - home

Basically you need to tune fuel for cold start, cruise & pe mode. In the $8d tpi binary there are 2-3 times the amount of tables and constant as compared to the $42 TBI binary. This adds to the complexity and it takes some patience to understand them all.
 

IronScout

Member
Lots of good info. I have been reading about mpfi and then reading again. I know what you mean about +10. Do you have any more updates. Hows the motor running? Or better question, hows the tunning going?
Thanks
 
Engine is running pretty well. I've been playing with the iac & cold start settings. Recently, I believe I had a bad map sensor. The motor would wheeze and will not spin up all of the sudden. Problem was intermittent so it was hard to diagnose. I was able to get aldl reading one day. When the egine wheezes, the map values jump to 95kpa with the throttle blades barely open. Normally it would be around 75-80kpa. I swapped another map sensor in and it has not done it. We'll see. This evil bitch must be possessed. It fights me every way possible. Even new delco sensors go bad. Arggh f**k!

But it is a blast to drive. So the tinkering continues.....
 
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