How much advance?

Mastiff

Member
I'm working on dialing in my 152 with delco distrib. Where I am now, I'm seeing about 20 degrees of advance with the vac removed and 25 with it connected, at idle (~700 rpm I'd guess, but I don't have a tach yet). I think this is quite a bit more advance than the values in the manual, but not hearing any ping, and the engine feels pretty gutless. Any thoughts?

It does fire right up though.
 
I just realized that my distributor is installed backwards. The vacuum canister is on the driver's side. I can't think of why this would matter, but it's kind of weird. Can anyone else think of why it would matter? Like I said, it starts easily and seems to run reasonably well except for low power.
 
Spec'd timing is 4 deg btdc @ 500 rpm. Iirc the mech advance kicks in around 400 rpm or 800 engine rpm. If you're close to that, you May be seeing some of the mechanical advance giving you a false base timing. With so much of the timing range used up in the lower rpm range, you're total advance would limit out probably before the peak torque rpm leaving you feeling gutless. Get a tach, unplug the vacuum line, and set the base timing to 4 deg., then rehook the vacuum line. That's not always a set in stone value, but the procedure is. After you've done that, you can try other settings to see if your performance goes where you like it. Can orientation with the distributor makes no difference as long as the dist. Is right with the engine; it's can orientation on the distributor that makes a difference is which way it pulls the breaker plate.
 
There are at least 8 variations of distributors used just with the 152 engine. Each has completely different specs, and those specs also vary with distributor part number and vehicle production date.

Post your distributor part number and I'll tell ya the "specs" if you can't figgr 'em out. But if you have a service manual, the entire specification matrix for all part numbers is there.

I'd bet a 6 pak your distributor (whichever version you have) is either out of service specification for both endplay and mechanical advance/shaft runout. No way to get an accurate base timing point with a distributor in that condition, it's gonna be wore out! And the Holley unit is much more prone to being trashed than the delco. However, I recently built a delco for my own use that had an endplay in excess of 0.100"!!!! That is a mile and will allow a timing variation of more than 10* as engine rpm increases and decreases, that is all over the place! Combine that with a rotten mechanical advance, and shaft runout, and ya gotta distributor which is useless.

What to do??? Rebuild (or have rebuilt) your distributor and eliminate that variable! It's amazing whatta difference in performance and drivability you can realize when things are as they should be.

A Holley or delco distributor with the vacuum advance mounted on the "right hand" side of the distributor body indicates that the distributor is for a counter clockwise rotation distributor. That was not oem on a 152 inna s80 but would have been used in some apps of that engine for either marine or stationary service.

700rpm idle speed is too high for a 152, that will cause the vacuum advance to begin to actuate on a ported vacuum connection. Ya need shop-type instruments to do this kind of work...."about" and "I think" ain't good enough.

The dwell must be set correctly before looking at base timing. The correct dwell for the delco distributor for a 152 is 72*. I don't do "tolerance", 72* is very easy to set onna delco using a dwell meter.
 
I don't think this distrib is going counter clockwise, unless the firing order has changed too. I verified 1-3-4-2 clockwise around the top. Does the orientation of the distributor base really have anything to do with anything besides looks and interference with nearby components?

How would a person generally go about getting a distributor rebuilt?
 
First ya need to verify the runout and endplay using the procedure in the service manual. Make sure you are looking at the section dealing with delco distributors, not the Holley unit. There is an extensive specification chart at the end of the section which gives specs by the delco part number stamped on the aluminum "band" wrapped around the distributor shaft lag under the main body. That is the only identification on the delco distributor which will confirm which version you have.

If it's out of spec (which I highly suspect), this link will take you to the best resource I know of for rebuilding any distributor. I can't rebuild 'em per se, as I have no way of re-sizing the new bushings after installation. I can pull 'em down, sterilize 'em, test 'em, and re-shim the endplay, I keep sets of all sizes of distributor shaft/gear shims here in the shop. These shims I source in bulk from msd.

the philbin group - philbin manufacturing and philbin rebuilt products

I've personally visited the philbin folks, watched 'em reman distributor vacuum cans, and know what quality work they do. I use 'em myself when needed.

To verify direction of engine and/or distributor rotation, simply pop the cap off and have someone crank the motor over! Make a mental note and then write it down or draw an arrow on the water neck witha sharpie.
 
I wonder if we're looking at the same manual? I'm looking at the Scout 80/800 service manual I bought from bb. In the electrical section it has "section q distributor" with an exploded view that looks like a delco. The entire section is 9 pages long and has only the basic info, advance, dwell, point gap, etc.

After that is the Holley section, then 6 and 8 cylinder applications.

I May well be confused, but in this book it looks like the delco 4-cylinder section is the most anemic.
 
The masters from which those publications are reprinted are more than 40 years old, and in many cases sections were missing from the masters. Some reprints have all correct sections...some don't. This is true for all the binder books and light line repop publications. These type publications were produced to support experienced, trained mechanics with much experience working with IH products, they were never intended to be used in "hobbyist" mode! Even mechanics and parts personnel back in the IH dealerships had their own training methodology just to learn how to use these books, same for the parts lists. I sometimes have to spend an hour finding stuff I need for reference because the organizational system IH used was completely different corporate-wise as compared to the other "big 3" manufacturers. Many times, the info you are looking for is not contained in the section you "think" it should be, ya simply have to turn the pages until ya find it!

The specifications and "test data" in IH manuals comes at the end of the section where the service procedures are described for all componentry. In the case of the delco I-4 distributor section, it will be labeled "cts-2141-z". But that same section was printed originally under many different "cts" footers and was a component of many different manual configs for medium duty truck, light duty truck, ag equipment, etc. I have the big book which is the cts 2300 (8000+ pages?) which has data on every system used on utility, light duty, and medium duty IH vehicles.

One version of the Scout 80/800 repop manual I have covers only the Holley distributor and does not contain the section for the delco. There is nothing in the way of "data" that is common to each unit other than a base timing spec for installation of the distributor itself. Dwell/point gap, vacuum advance spec, advance curve spec., mechanical inspection points, etc. Are completely different for the two units.

Looking at the chart right now, I count seventeen individual part number distributors that yours could be, that's just the delco unit. If you don't have the original metallic p/n band on your unit, it's impossible to figgr out which one it is without running it onna distributor machine as described in the manual to determine what the curve "might" have been originally and then comparing to the data sheet. The delco units do not have an IH p/n stamped on the body as do the Holley units.

The delco cast iron distributor is far superior in every respect to the Holley in my opinion (same for the sv application). Dam near can't wear 'em out (shaft/bushing-wise) and are highly "tuneable". The end play on those is always the problem...that let's the timing "walk" as engine rpm increases/decreases. And unlike the Holley unit, the vacuum canister for the delco is available anywhere, even several sources for "adjustable" canisters. The "uni-set" delco breaker point/condenser is universal for all 4, 6, and 8 cylinder delcos, as well as the rotor. Only the cap is specific and an 8 cylinder cap works just fine for a 152/196 4-popper distributor.
 
Mike, my delco has these numbers on the band:
1110954 delco remy 2c8

do you have any stats for it?

Dam near can't wear 'em out
Oh yea, pretty massive too for being a rotary switch. Probably could go through several vehicle lifetimes.
 
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Regarding a delco 1110954 distributor for an sv 266:

the vacuum advance can creates 7* of advance rotation. Vacuum advance begins at 5>7.5"hg. Vacuum advance is all in at 10.5>11.5"hg.

Attached is one particular spreadsheet with many delco p/n's used in IH applications. Actual distributor mechanical advance data is contained in that doc.

Put the above together with the spreadsheet data, ya will have a "profile" of the referenced delco part number assembly, as used in both gasoline and lpg applications.
 

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Than-kew! It's pretty close to the Holley except advance kicks in a tad sooner and tops out 100 rpm higher. It came from an early 70's loadstar with a 345.
 
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