Holley 2210C rebuild (lots of pics)

MikeInMobileAL

New member
Holley 2210 rebuild disassembly (lots of pics)

Lots of great IH carb info here Mike.

I recently picked up a 78 4x4, 304, 727 sii that had been sitting for a few years due to fuel delivery problems. The original owner passed away a few years ago, and his son in law inherited the Scout.





As he told me himself, he drove it for a while, but he didnt have a clue how to keep it maintained and in good running condition, so when it started having carb/fuel related problems and transmission problems, he paid someone to "go through" the gas tank, put on a new fuel pump, and put on a parts store rebuilt 2210c. He then had the 727 "looked at" by someone and was told it was fine.

He never could get it to run right or shift right after that, so it got parked, with intentions of repairing it sometime in the future. That repair time never came, and eventually it was listed on the local craigslist. Thats where I came in.

The 2210c on the engine was the parts store rebuild. It also came with a well used Holley factory reman 2210c laying in the back of the Scout.

I took both carbs and broke them down to prepare for a rebuild. I got a couple of surprises along the way.

Carb on the left (silver) is an r7940, 483449c91, 0534 (quality reman sticker #20-19, 0-23-01-05)
carb on the right (gold) is an r7309a, 465663c91, 0416 (Holley reman sticker #225462, 0582, 64-3143)







The r7309a had the hot idle compensator valve port drilled, but blocked off.


The r7940 was never drilled.


Otherwise the carbs are pretty much identical.










More later.

Mike

(search keywords, 2210c, 2210-c, Holley, carb, carburetor, rebuild, r7309a, r7940, 465663c91, 483449c91)
 
Last edited:

MikeInMobileAL

New member
Re: Holley 2210 rebuild disassembly (lots of pics)

So, more, as promised.

I started tearing down the r7940 quality reman first, because the r7309a Holley reman looked like it May have sat outside in the weather at some point due to the rust issues, and it May be easier to clean the r7940.

I checked the choke pull offs on both units and they both held vacuum. The connector is bent on one of them, but it will still work.


I removed the choke pull off.




Removing the accel pump actuator and link connections.

Upper link connection.

Lower link connection.


Removed the choke shaft linkage.

Fast idle cam end.


Then I flipped it over and removed the 5 throttle body screws.


When I removed the throttle body I found that they used the right gasket.


I found this shot plug in the bottom of the throttle body.


Here is the other end of the passage that is plugged. Its plugged too. Shouldnt pose any problem at all.


Removed the idle adjustment screws.

They looked good, with no visible galling, though slightly blurry.




More later.
Mike
 
Last edited:

MikeInMobileAL

New member
Re: Holley 2210 rebuild disassembly (lots of pics)

More again.

Back to the carb body and removed the fast idle cam.




Removed the 8 screws in the top of the carb and pulled it off.


No surprises here, just dried rusty dirty schmutz.


Gently removed the pump side and choke side main jets. If they are different numbers, Mark them so they can go back in the same places.


Removed the power valve assembly.

Yuck.

More yuck.


Removed the fuel bowl baffle.


Pulled out the float hinge pin.

And the float.


Pulled out the needle.

And removed the seat.



To be continued.
Mike
 
Last edited:

MikeInMobileAL

New member
Re: Holley 2210 rebuild disassembly (lots of pics)

Removed the pump discharge needle. (yes the carb is suddenly cleaner. I forgot to get a pic of this step when I actually did it in the original teardown with the grungy carb.)




Removed the accelerator pump assembly.







Removed the power valve piston assembly (the Holley reman is shown) "when re-installing the power valve piston assembly, lightly stake casting around (retaining) washer" to hold the piston in. This piston assembly almost fell out with a light pull.




More to come.
Mike
 
Last edited:

Michael Mayben

IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Nice stuff Mike! Great to see you contributing on ihon!

The carb with the nicer chromate finish has been converted "away" from a version that used the hicd circuit, thus the plugging which is non-oem. Typical reman conversion! That will have no impact at all on performance as long as the vacuum passages which are plugged are truly "plugged"! The hicd system is a totally passive emissions bandaid...but if the valve stuck "open" or the cork seal for the valve did not seal, then a drivability issue would be a concern.

And in this thread:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/tool-talk/1570-mityvac-thread.html

You can see how to test the power valve actuator system using a mityvac.

Nice work on the cleanup!
 

MikeInMobileAL

New member
Re: Holley 2210 rebuild disassembly (lots of pics)

nice stuff Mike! Great to see you contributing on ihon!

The carb with the nicer chromate finish has been converted "away" from a version that used the hicd circuit, thus the plugging which is non-oem. Typical reman conversion! That will have no impact at all on performance as long as the vacuum passages which are plugged are truly "plugged"! The hicd system is a totally passive emissions bandaid...but if the valve stuck "open" or the cork seal for the valve did not seal, then a drivability issue would be a concern.

And in this thread:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/tool-talk/1570-mityvac-thread.html

You can see how to test the power valve actuator system using a mityvac.

Nice work on the cleanup!
I thought the cleanup was a done deal, till I saw those dirty crevices that the camera flash revealed in the pump discharge needle pics. I got them cleaned up now though. :d

good idea on the mityvac use thread. With the tip adapter in the proper port, when I squeezed the handle on the mityvac, the power valve actuators in both carbs pulled most of the way down, then quickly popped right back up. Like you described in your mityvac thread, they dont hold vacuum, but they move down briefly then spring back up.

Mike
 
Last edited:

MikeInMobileAL

New member
Re: Holley 2210 rebuild disassembly (lots of pics)

Here are some of the differences and a couple of surprises that I found.

Fast idle cams.
From the r7940 483449c91 on the left, r7309a 465663c91 on the right. Notice the different step profiles.


The r7309a Holley reman when I opened it up. Obviously it must have sat outside at some point recently and got water in it. The liquid smelled like old watery varnish.


When I was cleaning the throttle body of the r7940 quality reman, I noticed the throttle plates (butterflies) would stick closed. If you let the spring snap them back, it would take a good bit of force to get them to open again. Upon closer examination I found this. Look at the bottom of the plate on the left. See the tiny dents? Somebody tried to flatten it out after it got bent at some point.


When I found that, I dug further and found that not only was the plate bent, but the throttle shaft was bent too. Thats why it was sticky. Somebody used a heck of a lot of force to bend that shaft like that when something got stuck in the throttle plate. The attempted repair on the bent throttle plate leads me to believe that it was sent out from the remanufacturer (quality) with the bent parts, since the po bought this carb and put it on. He admitted he didnt know much about vehicles and said he never could get it to run right.



I ended up using the throttle shaft and one plate from the r7309a Holley reman, so it looks like right now out of these two carbs I only have enough good parts to rebuild one 2210. I will be rebuilding the r7940 quality reman since it cleaned up really good. The r7309a Holley reman didnt clean up much at all even after a 24 hour soak in berrymans chem dip.


The r7940 quality reman also had two different tapers on the idle mixture screws. This reman was screwed up pretty badly. It must have been a pita to try and get this thing to work right. No wonder the po had problems with it.


On a good note, I finally got my xm home kit hooked up to the beat up 20 year old obsolete onkyo shop stereo.
Gotta love commercial free endless classic shop toonz. :yesnod:


Since this thread is so long and pic intensive, I started a separate reassembly thread For the 2210 rebuild reassembly process.

Mike
 
Last edited:

GaryOR

Member
First off, thanks greatly for the detailed photos. It's been a long time since I've worked on a carb and never on this make. The po "rebuilt" the carb but failed to r&r much less clean some of the stubborn to remove items, then he failed to replace all of the parts that he did remove.:yikes:

question: the pump discharge needle is impossible to remove. Will that be a problem? What's its function? Of course I could drill it out, but then I wouldn't have one at all. Suggestions?

Thanks.
 

Michael Mayben

IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
first off, thanks greatly for the detailed photos. It's been a long time since I've worked on a carb and never on this make. The po "rebuilt" the carb but failed to r&r much less clean some of the stubborn to remove items, then he failed to replace all of the parts that he did remove.:yikes:

question: the pump discharge needle is impossible to remove. Will that be a problem? What's its function? Of course I could drill it out, but then I wouldn't have one at all. Suggestions?

Thanks.
This is mikeinmobile's thread, but I'm going to answer since he doesn't frequent this board all that often.

The accelerator pump discharge needle must be removed, the accel pump well cleaned, and the fuel discharge path verified for flow. If you do not have a strong accel pump shot out of the discharge on these carbs, you May as well throw them away. Strong discharge is imperative, these are smog carbs (very lean on the idle circuits) and the Scout II is an extremely heavy vehicle with an engine that has high rotating mass. It takes a strong pump shot to launch a Scout II from a stop!!

The pump check needle serves the purpose of a one-way valve to prevent liquid fuel "pullover" (the siphon effect) from allowing liquid drool from the pump discharge orifices during an idle cruise condition when manifold vacuum is high.

I remove "stuck" discharge needles from nearly every 22xx I build. Several different methods depending upon which one works!

Do not attempt to drill it out, you cannot obtain a replacement needle and you will scruu up the bore. I don't have, nor can I obtain a new replacement needle from my carb parts suppliers.

Once the needle is removed, then the bore must be carefully cleaned/burnished so that the needle can operate smoothly.

Most of the time, after the carb body is removed from the soak solution (I use only "tyme" cold parts cleaner from crc), the needle will come out with a gentle tap on the body.

If the needle is literally "grown" into the body because of water intrusion and the resulting "white rust", I have another chemical treatment that I use but I won't discuss that here on the forum, sorry!
 

GaryOR

Member
I soaked it in a carb cleaning solution, though not the one that you use, and even used a very fine dremmel bit around the seat trying to break off anything-but no luck.

If you private message me your other suggestion, that would be great.

Question: where does this pump discharge needle open to? On the reverse side of the carb, almost inline with it is a hole that has been lead-plugged. I know there are various mods done on these carbs. Could it be that this is a nonfunctional item? Or, should I remove the plug and try a bottom-up approach to removing the needle?
 

Michael Mayben

IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
I soaked it in a carb cleaning solution, though not the one that you use, and even used a very fine dremmel bit around the seat trying to break off anything-but no luck.

If you private message me your other suggestion, that would be great.

Question: where does this pump discharge needle open to? On the reverse side of the carb, almost inline with it is a hole that has been lead-plugged. I know there are various mods done on these carbs. Could it be that this is a nonfunctional item? Or, should I remove the plug and try a bottom-up approach to removing the needle?
I'd rather not share some of the techniques and chemicals I use for dealing with stuff like this. That is how I attempt to actually generate income for both myself and the company that owns this site!

But we can remove the needle for you and hopefully save the well it's stuck in. Lacking that, we can provide a used (but sterile) replacement main body dependent upon what the list number is on the carb under discussion.

The accel pump discharge is connected to the accel pump well by a drilled passage in the main body. That is how liquid fuel is forced under pressure from below the accel pump piston. The hole is in the bottom of the accel pump well.

This is a somewhat crude methodology used in the reduced-cost manufacturing of smog carburetors back in the day, another reason why they were considered "throwaways" back in the day under the emissions regulations and warranties of that era. Compared to the accelerator pump/enriching system used in performance carbs (and most especially the Holley modular series), the 22xx series units are stone-age, even the Holley 1904 that dates back to 1952 is superior in that regard.
 

GaryOR

Member
Now I understand the part's purpose. Thanks for the quick lesson. I've spent too many years not getting my hands dirty on engines but it's coming back (ok, slowly).

I'll try much longer soaking and see what I get. If not, before I spend my money on a new carb, I'll let you guys have a go at it.

So I and all other Scout and forum newbies can understand, aside from a smart guy who needs to make a living (especially with barry taking all of our money), what's the set up with you and the "company"? I know there is binder u, but who is binder u? Is there a business that we pay for services? Donate for services?
 

Michael Mayben

IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
now I understand the part's purpose. Thanks for the quick lesson. I've spent too many years not getting my hands dirty on engines but it's coming back (ok, slowly).

I'll try much longer soaking and see what I get. If not, before I spend my money on a new carb, I'll let you guys have a go at it.

So I and all other Scout and forum newbies can understand, aside from a smart guy who needs to make a living (especially with barry taking all of our money), what's the set up with you and the "company"? I know there is binder u, but who is binder u? Is there a business that we pay for services? Donate for services?
Good question!

Here's the relationship between ihon and me inna nutshell:

Jeff Ismail, along with his entire family and siblings have been immersed in IH stuff since birth! Two of the older Ismail boyz (Isa and Mike) have their own companies in socal doing the same kinda stuff and each business is both a supplier to and a customer of each other. Confusing?

I've known 'em all for quite some time and my wife and I consider ourselves adopted members of the Ismail family unit. Likewise, the ismails are our family!

So I deal with this forum for Jeff, perform wholesale/retail customer service and support functions for ihon, provide reconditioned components such as carbs, distributors, etc., and develop sources for obsolete/nla parts that takes much research,..that is not time that creates income for Jeff and the krew at the actual store/shop location. In short, anything Jeff needs done, that I can do remotely and electronically, that is what I do.

My son died a few years ago, I have no one else to pass my experience on to other than the folks that hang on this forum. So that is why I cranked up "binder university" years ago, basically as a joke because I taught automotive technology in a community college for many years (14).

So now binder u. Has evolved into a kinda b&b for gearheads who thrive on verbal abuse, war stories of the gearhead persuasion, a high cholesterol diet with plenty bbq and grease, and flyfishing the river in the front yard.

Instruction is all personalized based upon what needs to be done to "make run" or to accomplish something like "overhaul a 727", brake service, rebuild a carb (and hope they can drive home!), etc.

Over the next several months binder u. Is gonna be ratcheted up a notch or two and hopefully expenses can be offset through barter/trade-outs/buying and selling of children and fire wood, etc.
 

GaryOR

Member
So no luck from my 2 days of soaking. I'm gonna have to call in the experts. Mayben, are you willing and able to have me send this carb body to you? What's the address? You can either post or private message me. Estimate on the cost?

Meanwhile, I'm still trying to get this dog started. Assuming the carb is otherwise ok, should I be successful (as long as I'm not trying to run at high rpms) or will this prevent even a slow run?

My son (his first vehicle) would love to have it running at the end of next week to show off to his classmates (and girlfriend) coming over for a cookout, so if it will run, I won't be sending the carb out until after that.
 

Michael Mayben

IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
so no luck from my 2 days of soaking. I'm gonna have to call in the experts. Mayben, are you willing and able to have me send this carb body to you? What's the address? You can either post or private message me. Estimate on the cost?

Meanwhile, I'm still trying to get this dog started. Assuming the carb is otherwise ok, should I be successful (as long as I'm not trying to run at high rpms) or will this prevent even a slow run?

My son (his first vehicle) would love to have it running at the end of next week to show off to his classmates (and girlfriend) coming over for a cookout, so if it will run, I won't be sending the carb out until after that.
We will be in oregon city tomorrow (sat., the 5th) for a wedding. Send me an email to:

michael@IHPartsAmerica.com

And I'll write you back about where to drop the carb off. Bring the entire unit. I'll take care of this for you, we'll worry about the "cost" later but I assure you that I do take care of our club members. I don't have functional loaner in that carb list right now and don't have time to make one up today as I'm slammed with work and commitments this afternoon/evening.

Will this condition prevent the engine from running...probably not. But I have no diubt that carburetor has other issues, if that needle is tuck like that, it's had water in it and water/corrosion is inside all the passages in the main body and that will prevent it from running.

You will have the carb back in your possession middle of next week.
 

FDChappie

Active member
Not likely. Your best bet might to buy a factory service manual as there are great pics and diagrams of the 2210 carb in there. These are really great manuals and not like a Chiltons or Hastings.
 
Top