Dist. Conformation

JohnnyC

Member
77 Scout II, 304/2300 series carb/727/20/44 combo

my question is did I guess correctly in identifing my dist? It kinda looks like the Holley gold box version. What kit can I use to upgrade the system to get rid of the gold/box/ make it perform better/ gas milage?
 

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Yes, your pics show a Holley gold box distributor.

If it's properly functional now, there is no advantage to doing anything with it other than verifying that the advance system operates within spec. It's as "state-of-the-art" as any electronic-control, inductive ignition system currently available.

If the control unit (mounted to the firewall) has not failed in all these years, chances are very low that it ever will.

If it does fail, then the most cost-effective solution is to install a pertronix conversion in the existing distributor and do away with the control unit. A pertronix conversion for those distributors was introduced about five years ago. Pertronix p/n for that special unit is ho-181. Do not attempt to use a p-tron 1481, it will not work!

Check this thread for an example:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.co...ower-missing-odd-noises-gold-box-failure.html

But if the mechanical advance and the vacuum advance are not functioning correctly, then that needs to be attended to before doing anything else. And...the end play needs to be checked, if it;s greater than 0.015" then the timing will vary considerably across the scale as the engine accelerates and then returns to idle in normal operation.

All the above has to do with "state-of-tune". Making certain that the distributor is up to snuff simply returns it's performance to oem when it was new. A tired distributor that is out-of-spec will certainly have an impact on fuel efficiency along with a tired carburetor.

There is no magic bullet for increasing fuel economy other than somehow dropping in the neighborhood of 1,000lbs. Gross weight off the rig.
 
What would be a good fuel milage for a 77 Scout II/304/2300series carb-58 mains and a 45 powervalve/Holley goldbox/727/20/44-3.54 on 30 in tires, also I live and drive at 6100 ft?
 
The last Scout II with a Holley 2300 sidehung float carb would have been circa 1972. Typical main jetting on those was either 52, 53, or 54 (at sea level).

But the oem 2300 carbs have a much "leaner" overall metering block as compared to the aftermarket 2300 (list 7448). So consequently, the main jetting is leaner also.

Since you did the #58 main jets when we last discussed this carb, have you tried going down in main jet size since then? You are most likely still too "fat" (Rich), all ya can do is keep trying to go smaller until ya hit that point at a steady cruise of about 35>40mph where the rig seems to "surge" (that is sometimes nearly imperceptible)....then go back up one step in mains and that should nail it. Once you have the main jets dialed in, you must re-adjust the idle mixtures also, all fuel for all circuits is metered through the main jets on these carbs!

The #45 power valve is just fine for that altitude though.

I'd guestimate typical average mileage as you described your setup (if the carb is optimally jetted) to be 12>14mpg when driven conservatively. These vehicles are heavy...that is what impacts fuel mileage more than anything else!
 
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Sweet. Thanks for the advice. I havent tried jetting down the mains since I put the 58's in I'll have to try it out.

I've been reading through all the p-tron threads as well as the gold box threads and, although you say their good ign systems when everythings up to par, everyone still upgrades to the p-tron. Is the p-tron worth the money to upgrade even if the gb is still working.
 
As michael stated, if your current system (actually does not matter "what it is") is working correctly, there is no real benefit in putting in / changing to a petronix (or any other ign system for that matter).

Ign systems are not going to improve gas mileage -- unless the one you have is a worn out / mis-firing pos.

If you will "feel better" having a petronix (or ???); then, change your current system. But, there is no real roi (return on investment); just an "expense" - other than you "feeling better". Though, some people will convince themselves that the engine runs better -- because they "made a change".
 
sweet. Thanks for the advice. I havent tried jetting down the mains since I put the 58's in I'll have to try it out.

I've been reading through all the p-tron threads as well as the gold box threads and, although you say their good ign systems when everythings up to par, everyone still upgrades to the p-tron. Is the p-tron worth the money to upgrade even if the gb is still working.

There are two potential failure points for the gold box system. One is the firewall-mounted module itself. Those fail primarily due to their mounting location...worst possible location on the entire vehicle (other than right on top of the exhaust manifold).

The other is the hall effect pickup (electronic trigger) inside the distributor. However, an inop trigger is extremely rare in actual use.

Replacement gold box modules are available from many sources including ihon, no big deal.

However, when someone experiences a failure of the module, one additional solution is to convert the distributor to a p-tron trigger. But those do cost considerably more at retail than a replacement gold box! And...guess what...the p-tron is a hall effect sensor also!!...though it does not need/use the gold box module to function. In fact it cannot be used with the oem gold box module.

In the big picture regarding inductive ignition systems (as opposed to a real upgrade which involves incorporating a capacitive discharge unit such as msd 6, crane 6, mallory 6, etc.), there is no advantage to installing a p-tron over simply replacing the gold box if it fails.

The reason why some folks experience an "increase" in perceived performance when using the p-tron is normally associated with the fact that the distributor is overhauled at the same time which involves correcting the endplay for enhancing timing control. Also, by cleaning up the mechanical advance and verifying that the vacuum advance is functional (also a problem area of failure), original distributor performance is restored. It is not because the p-tron module worked some kind of magic!

When you look at the two systems run on the same engine (with the same coil) on an oscilloscope, you will see there is no difference in dwell/coil saturation, or secondary coil output (measured in kilovolts). But if the distributor is properly serviced and brought back into spec, there is an enhancement to dwell variation (coil saturation), and ignition timing is far more stable across the rpm range due to the tightened-up endplay. That is manifested in restored distributor performance which has significantly deteriorated over time (30+ years and hundreds of thousands of miles).
 
Sounds good to me. Saving some money. Thanks for all your advice.

I adjusted my dwell or air gap last night and the Scout seems to be running smoother. What should the proper gap be for this tyrp of dist?
 
The reluctor air gap for a Holley gold box pickup is spec'd at 0.008" as measured with a non-magnetic thickness gauge (normally brass, some are titanium or non-mag stainless).
 
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