building axles to handle 35's

I

ihwild

Member
What would be a good way to proceed to be able to run 35's on a 1979 Scout II.

The goal is to be able to handle trails such as the one four wheeler magazine's ultimate adventure. Anything else you could recommend would be appreciated. Here is a rundown of where it's at and where I'd love it to be.

Right now it's at
1979 Scout II 345 727auto Dana 20
stock axles other then the rpt axle bearing retainers.
2inch Skyjacker lift
still SUA
3.07 gears
31x10.5x15
FI in progress (stalled at the moment due to lacking of good distributor dangs parts trucks 400 miles away and none were coming out easily)


my dream is:

proper gears and axles for 35's tires
345 with fuel injection or diesel.
Auto with od in one form or another to be able to get decent mpg at highway speeds. Needs to be road able for multiple hundred mile at a time trips.
Suspension setup right for good handling and good trail use
lockers preferable selectable.
On board air of some form possibly a/c depending on where I get stationed next.
Other seats prefer something that folds flat like the passenger side of the pt cruiser did, because I was thinking of putting them in the back area too.
A custom storage area in the back for all the stuff I'd be carrying.
Good bumpers that offer good trail protection and a place for a winch at least on the front.

Well I'll cut it off there so I don't ramble..
Any suggestions or pricing would be great.
Thanks for your time.
Your service is always great and has gotten me back on the road a few times.
Rich
 
By stock do you mean d44s?
Or a d44/d30?

D44s will hold up well, bring spares.

Or get chromo shafts & good shafts here from Jeff.
Then the spares just in case.

SOA & regear to around 4.88s or 4.56s....
Lockers f&r...
I'd suggest a detroit front & ARB or similar rear.
 
Both d44's front disc rear drum. Lol I guess I was assuming everyone would figure it was d44's due to year of the Scout.

So with the moly shafts they would hold up just fine? Carry a few extra hubs maybe?I'd like them to be where they won't break easily but I don't want to be excessive... Though if d44's will hold up fine then I might just stick with them for now until I start breaking or find something better down the road when my budget gets bigger. Thanks for the knowledge more is welcome. :)

Rich
 
I have lots of questions but the first and most pressing 2 are. What is your skill level and budget? There is nothing bolt on for these and nothing cheap in doing what you want. You could easily drop 20k on your Scout to set it up properly, and that is without engine swap. You could stick with the 44 rear and it might hold up or you could build a semi float 60 and it should hold up to just about anything you’re talking about doing. ARB or ox lockers are very cool and the way to go if budget permits. You already mentioned the gears, and I would consider a spring over. You should check out the spring over builds in this forum for a idea of what’s involved there. Jeff can also set you up with a 700r4 that will allow you to keep the IH mill that you are already deep into with the FI.
Lastly the bumpers you speak of, if you want them to look good and be fully functional you should have Jeff and Darren build you a set to your specs.
 
ihochad said:
I have lots of questions but the first and most pressing 2 are. What is your skill level and budget? There is nothing bolt on for these and nothing cheap in doing what you want. You could easily drop 20k on your Scout to set it up properly, and that is without engine swap. You could stick with the 44 rear and it might hold up or you could build a semi float 60 and it should hold up to just about anything you’re talking about doing. ARB or ox lockers are very cool and the way to go if budget permits. You already mentioned the gears, and I would consider a spring over. You should check out the spring over builds in this forum for a idea of what’s involved there. Jeff can also set you up with a 700r4 that will allow you to keep the IH mill that you are already deep into with the FI.
Lastly the bumpers you speak of, if you want them to look good and be fully functional you should have Jeff and Darren build you a set to your specs.
Click to expand...

Well my budget will be better in the next year or two as I am changing my spending habits lol. Plus a nice reenlistment bonus helps. 20k over some time wouldn't be a big deal as this will probably be a buildup over a few years. It's a shame they aren't on the east coast though maybe I could trade some parts for parts lol.... The spring over sounds great but I am thinking at least with my lack of welding skills... (I can wrench and follow manuals with good instructions pretty good) and the lack of finding anyone willing to do axle welding around the pa and maine areas for spring overs on the street. (liability) that a already sprung over style axle might be a better bet.

Skill level isn't bad at all.. Can't shape sheet metal worth much but I've done a decent amount of work mechanically course I don't think I'd like to pull apart a transmission at least not without a spare lol. Partially the problem I'd have fabbing stuff would be lack of good fab tools ie chop saw, tubing benders, quality welders is where I am running into hold-ups. I might just end up ordering a set of bumpers once I actually know what I need/want. I like the brush guard look but that stingers I've seen might be a good idea.

Depending on where I get stationed next (transfer next summer) I do have plenty of spare 44's sitting at home some with better gearing for larger tires but nothing above 3.73 as far as I know.
The biggest stumbling block is I've read a lot on sitting up the rigs but I don't know what questions I should even be asking myself on a lot of this. I do know that if I go spring over I'd go with Jeff on everything especially since I haven't seen anyone else running antisway equipment on there. Heck I sometimes feel I'd like to have them even with only the 2 inch skyjackers I have on it. I might get custom from alcan once everything is on and I have the final weight.

I am thinking if I can get the rest of the rig up to par for everything then have the money for the axles, wheels, and tires hit that all at once since the re gearing would be required and would probably be ridiculously low to run 31's or even 33's I'd guess. Of course that might not matter if I have an alternate dd by then. (I only drive 1.5 miles each way to work at the moment.) I don't have to swap the engine out since it runs fine but the tranny swap or a stak 3 speed with the overdrive option might be nice for fuel mileage in the end. Crazy suspension could come later as long as I can fit the tires and it handles fine. I am willing to do fender trimming. That isn't going to scare me especially since one fender has enough rot all I'd have to do is cut out the bondo and welded in metal back some. Lol. The body is physically solid just needs a few minor patches here and there anything else wrong can wait and is cosmetic or getting modified anyways. The cool thing is if I decide to modify and frame work or anything along that I have a couple of spare frames of Scout II's or traveler's I could work with and not have to worry about anything. It's just a matter of having a place to bring them too from pa. (military housing without a garage really blows)

down below is the list of minimum requirements just to go on the run.

Vehicle/driver requirements
there will be a tech inspection at check in. Your vehicle will be inspected for all of the following equipment and paperwork. You will not be allowed to join ultimate adventure if your vehicle fails this inspection.
¥ vehicle must be street licensed and insured, and driver must have a valid driver's license, current registration, and current proof of insurance.
¥ front and rear lockers (limited slips do not suffice)
¥ must be self sufficient (bring your own spares, tools, jack, and trail food)
¥ winch drool want it could have used it last weekend used bulldozer instead

¥ rollbar (rollcage preferred) have to finish it. Though not really happy with the fit of it might be do to front floor repairs not being perfectly in place.

¥ first-aid kit ordering bigger one soon

¥ seatbelts for all occupants, worn at all times want to put in 3 points

¥ adequate tow-strap/winch attachment points front and rear umm need them

¥ battery hold down need to improve it lol

¥ 35-inch minimum tire size want to build for it

¥ working cb got it

¥ fire extinguisher got it

¥ tow strap will be buying new one soon

¥ jack got 3 kinds lol

ultimate adventure 2008 application | off road events blog & opinions at 4wheel & off road magazine

Rich

p.s. Sorry for the long winded reply.
 
I run 36s with my Dana 44s.

I run good stock axle shafts, with greaseable spicer joints, and I weld the joints in to the axle shafts.

They last a year or two on average before I totally destroy the stock shafts.. Or a hub.. Or wheel hub.

I've toyed with the idea of alloy shafts, but I've already destroyed one 4.09 r&p, and I'm afraid if I buy $600+ in alloy axle shafts, I'll just take out the r&p more often.

..so I bought a pair of 60s that I'm too busy to install. :d
 
ihochad said:
Ok Chad I've decided I just want your truck lol.....

I just went through your entire build wow is all I can say... I don't know about the overall height for my home state of pa because of the lift laws but I'd have to check as I think they go from the lowest stock bumper bracket or frame point. The actual height of that I can't remember. My first step right now is to get the fuel injection running... But I have to find a dizzy to convert as I couldn't get any of my spares out of the other engines. They have been sitting awhile.

Good luck with it all and your family.
Rich
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Rich, for both the build compliment and the thoughts for my family. The down side is this damn build has stalled and started so many times I am getting whip lash, that was supposed to be a quick 6 month, spring over reverse shackle. We are now at the 2 year Mark. But I am getting the Scout I always wanted, it's just taking longer than I had planned. Not to sound too conceited, but going through the list you posted above and my Scout would hit those other than the full lockers. It's something to work towards anyway. The thing about the height is that there is really not much weight on the truck right now, it should settle in quite a bit, I am hoping the rear drops at least 2 inches.
 
Just a quick question.. What would be the list of questions you would have for my build. It might give me a bit of guidance to go with. Thanks
Rich
 
So the budget and the skill are still the 2 biggest questions. Then,

1. What type of driving do you plan to do with this? I have tried to build on the 80/20 rule. In other words what is the Scout going to be doing 80% of the time? Make that the focal point of doing anything from suspension to interior amenities. You should try to be careful not to ignore the 20% but no Scout can do everything perfectly. Jeff’s probably comes closest to any I have personally seen, a lot of the same technology and premise for my build comes from Jeff’s Scout.

2. Is this a toy or a daily driver? In other words can you afford to have it sit for weeks or months at a time?

3. How concerned with cosmetics are you? Does it need to be pretty or just functional or both? For me it's both.

4. Do you want cutting edge stuff or tried and true technology? For me I wanted a compromise of sorts. Some modern advances, like you FI, and some other doodads, but for the most part time honored and tested stuff like leaf springs rather than coils linked suspension.

5. How good are you at completing tasks, if you start a major upgrade are you going to be able to finish it or will it end up sitting? I ask because sometimes it is worth the money to pay someone to do it for you and save yourself the heartache of the project sitting incomplete and no desire to move forward. Many a project has fallen prey to this. I am desperately trying to avoid this on my own, no lack of desire just other life events.

6. This is more of a statement than a question. Jeff and I have always preached getting your vehicle in optimal operating shape before starting to upgrade it. So in other words, get it clean, safe, running in top form, then start your upgrades such as lifts and performance mods. Think of it as the foundation for your build. Unless you plan on doing a complete build like I am.

7. And lastly, again another statement. Sit down figure out what you want to do to it. Come up with a realistic budget, and then triple it. I am not making a joke here at all. What ever you think the build is going to cost it will actually end up costing at least 3 times that amount. You can ask Jeff or just about any of his customers, my own build is probably close to 5 times more than I had budgeted. Ld's build (that is in the build up section) went over what he initially intended to spend. Everyone does this. Some are just more prepared for it than others.


Good luck, if you stick with it and build it the way you want you will be very happy in the end no matter how much you spend.
 
ihochad said:
7. And lastly, again another statement. Sit down figure out what you want to do to it. Come up with a realistic budget, and then triple it. I am not making a joke here at all. What ever you think the build is going to cost it will actually end up costing at least 3 times that amount. You can ask Jeff or just about any of his customers, my own build is probably close to 5 times more than I had budgeted. Ld's build (that is in the build up section) went over what he initially intended to spend. Everyone does this. Some are just more prepared for it than others.
Click to expand...

#7 cannot be any more truer except with todays inflation we now inform customers to quadruple the estimated budget that they have in mind. I do have 4 simple rules that I do tell to every customer that is interested in potentially having us build there IH up -

1. Can of worms rule - every IH(or any classic vehicle) is a "big can of worms" so to speak. The question of how many worms that are in your can will only be answered once you start tearing into your project. The deeper you dig the more "worms" you will find. Trust me.

2. Mileage rule - it doesn't matter if your IH or classic vehicle has 30,000 original miles are 300,000 original miles as chances are its either worn out or rotten. Take your pick.

3. Dominoes rule - your plan is to replace part a and part b during your restoration/build-up. You tear into your IH and find part c is bad also. But its really not recommended to replace part c without replacing part d and part e and sometimes part f. And while you're there you might as well replace part g since you're this far. So like a row of dominoes falling your list of parts and labor start piling up.

4. Quadruple rule - from reading the first three rules it is easy to see why once you have a budget in mind that you might as well quadruple it in order to be realistic. If your build-up only costs you triple of what you planned then consider yourself lucky(or thrifty).
 
See this is why you guys rock... You didn't just say you need this and this and that and here is the bill. You gave me some planning tools to decide what I really want to do and can do. With the gas prices nowadays after my next pcs to wherever that will be. I do believe it is going to end up being dedicated fun/towing duty only. Definitely keeping it street legal but less concerned with down time after I have another dd.

Thanks. I am going to take those questions, think about them and come up with some answers. I know there are a few minor can of worms I want to tackle first. Wiring, steering column and a few body bits. Other then that it is fairly solid save for some normal wear and tear items.

Rich
 
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