Axle tube depth in C's? and other SII 2wd axle Qs?

[stu simpson]

I'm not waking anyone up in the brake forum so maybe I'll have some luck in this one. I am trying to finagle some useable front brakes for a 2wd Scout 800 and have been struggling a little with the stock beam axle(category #1). I have several donor axles on hand, and some coming, in order to manufacture operating drum brakes for the little rig. It is a 1966/67 Scout 800 lhd 2wd sportop convertible with the small 4 lug pattern. The front drums are split, supposedly a common problem with the 4 lug, and the rear axle is out of a falcon according to the po. So they are coming out asap. I have a lhd 5 on 4.5" set with 9" x 2" front brakes on hand and will use these probably if I can't make category #2 work. The axle is missing a hub and drum and the condition of the other hub/drum is not great. The rear axle is a powrlok'd two-piece model in 5 on 4.5". One of the donor front axles is out of a mid 60s rhd 800 postal and has good hubs/drums equipped with 10" front brakes. Also comes with a set of 5 16" 5 on 4.5" rims. I do not have any microfiche for any 5 lug front axle setups, only the 4 lug, even though the 5 lug was produced prior to the 1968 or so publication of my (complete) fiche set .



So that brings me to this forum. I am considering using a sii 2wd tube axle and narrow it, giving me disc fronts and allowing me to use a flanged d44 rear out of a Scout 800. Then, I can also do a rear disc swap and use 5 on 5.5" Scout II wheels, or 16" 5 on 5.5" Scout 80/800 wheels with spacers.

How deep is the tube pressed into the c? I figure I only need to do one side, then relocate the perches and fabricate a custom tie rod/drag link set out of dom. This can't be any different than the opening sequence of a cut/turn, right? Grind out the welds, knock off the c, chop tube, jig it up/reweld. Iirc, the tube is a blank d30? How much caster is in a sii 2wd axle? Does it depend on the year of the sii it was removed from?

For that matter, does anyone know the caster specs of a Scout 800 2wd front axle???????? Does it depend on 80 or 800 or 80/800/late 800 2wd????? There seems to be parts variation between the early 2wd (beam) 800 axles and the 69-71 2wd (beam) axles, maybe there are different setup specs too?????

 

[Mark Ashford]

Typical "c" stick-in is like 2", maybe 3". Been a little while since I measured, but I have a loose one around somewhere so I should be able to get you something in the next day or two.

Imho, your on the right track. Shorten one side however you need it to be (what is The difference between a 80/800 and a Scout II's width?). Put the knuckle back in line with it were it was. Then re-establish the perches were ever you need/want them to be (set the caster where ever you want). Remember, the caster issues with 4wd's is balancing the fine line between setting caster to a desired angle, and keeping a pinion angle that doesn't kill the front driveshaft. With a 2wd axle... No pinion to worry about, set the caster wheresoever you want (perches, shims whatever).

Then use Scout II disc, Ford discs, hybrid, whatever.



Or do it "right", heits front ifs kit and a 9" rear :d

 

[stu simpson]

typical "c" stick-in is like 2", maybe 3". Been a little while since I measured, but I have a loose one around somewhere so I should be able to get you something in the next day or two.

Imho, your on the right track. Shorten one side however you need it to be (what is The difference between a 80/800 and a Scout II's width?). Put the knuckle back in line with it were it was. Then re-establish the perches were ever you need/want them to be (set the caster where ever you want). Remember, the caster issues with 4wd's is balancing the fine line between setting caster to a desired angle, and keeping a pinion angle that doesn't kill the front driveshaft. With a 2wd axle... No pinion to worry about, set the caster wheresoever you want (perches, shims whatever).

Then use Scout II disc, Ford discs, hybrid, whatever.



Or do it "right", heits front ifs kit and a 9" rear :d

Thanks for the reply!

Not gonna subframe.

I figured the sii tube would be the best route and the least fabrication to get to front discs. I was a little disappointed that the rear was not flanged as advertised and was gazing at the d44 out of the 1110 sitting on the floor. If I can make the sii axle work, I can go to the 800-flanged and disc that. Plus I'll have parts support for awhile with these axles.

Frankly the front floors/kicks are so bad I am actually now considering looking for a donor sportop tub. It doesn't look too Bad from 20' but if you can get the doors open, fred flintstone. I'll give this one a try but folks should keep their eyes open for me. For now I am going to get it level and see if the body can be salvaged. Hope so.

In the service manual, the 800 beam axle shows 1* caster.

 

[Mark Ashford]

If it was me doing it.

I'd porta-band/chop saw the yoke off one side right at the weld line. Cut/torch/drive the remain stub out. Quick and painless and should net you about 2" shorter. Cut more off the tube as necessary. Remove both perches and clean up the tube.

Little clean up on both and hammer it together lining it up with other side. They are a pretty good press fit, but check the camber as well before you weld. Easist way would be to measure the distance from ball-joint hole to ball-joint hole top and bottom before you start, note the differance, then make the same differance before you weld it up.

Put on new perches were ever makes the most sence (rs, moving the springs under the frame, 2" wide springs, whatever) and tilt back for maybe 4-5º of caster if your going ps, maybe 1-3º of your staying manual.

Tack, check, weld, check, done. Should be less than a day project if your on task and have the materials on hand. Just do it :d

sounds like your body's pretty shot however. Time to look for a new body or order up some of sss floor pan and rocker kits.

 

[stu simpson]

if it was me doing it.

I'd porta-band/chop saw the yoke off one side right at the weld line. Cut/torch/drive the remain stub out. Quick and painless and should net you about 2" shorter. Cut more off the tube as necessary. Remove both perches and clean up the tube.

Little clean up on both and hammer it together lining it up with other side. They are a pretty good press fit, but check the camber as well before you weld. Easist way would be to measure the distance from ball-joint hole to ball-joint hole top and bottom before you start, note the differance, then make the same differance before you weld it up.

Put on new perches were ever makes the most sence (rs, moving the springs under the frame, 2" wide springs, whatever) and tilt back for maybe 4-5º of caster if your going ps, maybe 1-3º of your staying manual.

Tack, check, weld, check, done. Should be less than a day project if your on task and have the materials on hand. Just do it :d

sounds like your body's pretty shot however. Time to look for a new body or order up some of sss floor pan and rocker kits.

I think it will be the sii axle. I am likely doing ps but I will need a ferd ps box. I like your suggestion of increased caster. I do have a couple of extra 800 columns, but the 800B column (shorty, collapsable) and my sii box are destined for the 'road' 800. That will net me 4 stock full length columns, 2x 4 cyl and 2x 8 cyl all together to choose from. I have 2x manual v8 800 boxes and the 4 cyl box. Just think the ferd box for the stock location inside the rail would be best.

As far as sheetmetal, it is a raunchy tub. The exterior is really not too bad. The rear needs the floor and supports, very doable, but the driver's rocker is snapped off at the kick panel which is also rotted. I have plenty of flat sheetmetal and can make a full inner rocker plus an overlay, it is just a matter of getting everything out of rack. I have a full set of sss floors front/back, rockers and dogleg patches that I got for the 'road' 800. I have partial sets too. Problem is that the driver's 1/4 is bad up past the patch line and I will need either a whole panel or the front 1/3 or 1/2. Daunting. I have a line on a very rough but demonstrably better tub. I am holding out for a better one.

Plenty to do in the meantime, I guess!