79 IHC 345

R

Richard

Member
79 Traveler, 345, 4bbl TQ, 727 TF. This is a dealer engine I purchased back in 1988. It has never been run or had fluids in it until this weekend and has been sitting in my garage all this time. I did break it apart last summer to redo all of the seals knowing that rubber gets hard and cracks. all in all, the engine did not freeze up when sitting.

Just got the engine started this last weekend, ran it for about 35 min. @ 2,000 rpm to break it in with high zinc break-in oil. I did the "pre-oil", ran a drill at the oil pump groove for as long as my drill would run before it burned up, rotated the engine by hand about 15 turns. Lifters/rocker arm shafts oiled up real good while doing the pre-oil. Runs just fine but I have a couple of question.

1 - while running the break-in, the temp got up to about 225 degrees for about 5-6 minutes until I added more water into the radiator. Then the temp went back down to around 190. I have a 180 thermostat in it. Is this a concern? HELL, I hope not.

2 - Yesterday, got the engine started, timed it to right at 10 degrees, and running at about 700 RPMs. my oil pressure is at 10 lbs! I am not familiar with how low the oil pressure can get and still be functional. Is this a concern? Hell, I hope not. when "revving" the engine, the oil pressure goes up to around 45-50 lbs. Temp is right around 185-190.

3 - On the intake manifold runners (the "humps" that run to the head), I notice that the middle runners are discolored now. I also noticed this on my 77 IHC that I put a 345 into last summer. The 77 runs just fine. Is this normal, and if so, what makes the temp get so high as to discolor the runners?

All in all, I don't hear any "engine tick", engine knock, pinging, or rattle. listening to each head runner at the exhaust port, I hear the smooth exhaust, no popping or cracking: anything that would be a sign of a problem.

I do have a couple of exhaust leaks at the headers and exhaust pipes, but a new exhaust system will cure that. Heck, the exhaust system is from 1980. When I get to 500 miles from driving around and to change the break-in oil, I will drop the oil pan and check for any babbit, or chunks of metal.

Any thoughts/input to the above would be appreciated. Thanks.
 

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Your temperature is not a problem, however I would suggest the installation of a fan shroud. we have them available on our online store.

10 pounds oil pressure at idle is pretty normal.

The center intake ports discolor because that is the exhaust crossover port, and thus runs as hot as the exhaust manifolds.
 
wow, that was quick. Thank you. I feel better now. Thank you for the prompt response. Onward to putting everything together YEAH!
 
Needing some pictures:
I am trying to "reconnect" my thermoquad linkage back to the original setup, but am having a hard time finding any pictures. I have the TF727 linkage connected but am looking for pictures of the speedo cable (black plastic casing) linkage. If anyone has a clear, closeup picture of a 1979 engine
 
Richard said:
Needing some pictures:
I am trying to "reconnect" my thermoquad linkage back to the original setup, but am having a hard time finding any orignal pictures. I have the TF727 linkage connected but am looking for pictures of the speedo cable (black plastic casing) linkage , along with the metal brackets. If anyone has a clear, close-up picture of a 1979 345 engine with a Carter Thermoquad (driver's side), I would definitely appreciate it. Please and thanks.
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Update to this thread:
It's been about a year since I did this break-in, most of last year the Traveler was in the garage (I would start it up every other week just to get the juices flowing). I've had some disto issues for the last 2-3 months, but they are resolved. Now, I've had a chance to run around town on the break-in oil, got to 500 miles (give or take), drained oil, and dropped the oil pan to look for any metal bits, babbit, anything that would indicate premature engine wear or damage. Pan was very clean except for a very little bit of gunk/goo that looks like break-in lube/grease. No metal or anything else whatsoever. I am happy. No water/antifreeze evidence. I put a computer hard drive magnet on the outside bottom of the oil pan just to ensure that I was catching/getting "any" bit of metal. (FYI - hard drive magnets are by far the strongest magnet you can find)

So now, I've put 6 qts. of 10-30 oil with a pint of Comp Cam ZINC additive and I am running on that for the next 500 miles or so. So I have a few observations:

1 - when starting cold, the oil pressure goes to around 40-45 until warm-up. ( I have installed a mechanical gauge to supplement the dash gauge)
Also, when I start the Traveler, it takes about 3-4 seconds for the mechanical gauge to start reading pressure.
2- Fast idle is around 1500 RPM's
3 - I go driving around town to get the engine nice and warm, come back to drive to see where the temp and oil pressure are.
4- Engine temp is around 180-190 when sitting at idle.
5 - My oil pressure is around 7-9 pounds at idle. Idle is at 650-700 RPM's.

My concern is that this 7-9 pounds is too low of a reading. The shop manual (and various thread comments) have stated that the base reading should be 10-15 pounds at idle. I have not gotten on the freeway yet to get up to 60-65 mph as I wanted to wait till I hit 1,000 miles. My driving is all in town.

I would appreciate any thoughts, comments.

Thanks,

Richard
 
That's about the oil pressure they will have with 10w-30. As mentioned, try going to a slighter thicker oil. I have close to 2000 miles on my latest 392 running 10w-30 and will be putting in 15w-40 on the next change.

Also, instead of mixing additives to the oil you are using, I suggest using an oil that is already properly blended with the correct additive package for our old flat tappet engines. There are a few brands out there, but here at IHPA we exclusively use Swepco found here on our online store.
 
Wow, that was quick. Thank you for the replies, I really appreciate it as I was stressed out about the oil pressure getting so low that there would be NO oil flow up to the critical engine parts (crank, rod, and cam bearings. Thank you and I will upgrade to 15-40 oil.

Thanks again,

Richard
 
Richard said:
I have not gotten on the freeway yet to get up to 60-65 mph as I wanted to wait till I hit 1,000 miles. My driving is all in town.
Click to expand...
It's a mistake to baby a fresh engine.

Best thing you could do is to drive 20 miles out of town on a low-traffic highway to get everything up to proper operating temperature. Get it into high gear at the lowest speed practical, and then stab the gas pedal as hard as you can without forcing a transmission downshift. Hold the throttle open until you get to max legal speed, or whatever speed you can achieve safely if not legally (you want high cylinder pressure, but not high RPM--so speed is somewhat dependent on gearing and tire size) and then pull your foot off the gas pedal, let it coast down to your starting speed. Repeat until it stops being fun.

The heavy acceleration in high gear causes high cylinder pressure, forcing the rings against the cylinder walls for proper break-in and seating of the rings. Coasting creates high manifold vacuum that brings oil up the cylinder wall to wash away any wear particles.

Too much "babying" of the engine can cause the rings to delay seating--or perhaps not seat at all. Ideally, this is all accomplished before the cylinder walls get too polished by the ring friction.

I would not be thrilled by 7--9 psi oil pressure. But it's not causing any harm. I would be curious as to why it's that low.
 
weeeeeelllllll, it is what it is. I will be doing this on the next 345 I build. I have about 900 miles now, a couple of long highway trips (150 miles) , getting about 14 mpg on the highway, 10-11 around town. have changed out the oil twice, just to check for particles and/or metal. NONE. oil is very clean. changed to Rotella 15-40. idle oil pressure is 9-10 psi. I am ok with that.

one of the reasons I think the oil pressure is this low is that this engine is an original engine I bought from the International dealer back in 1987. it is a dealer-built engine and I am thinking how they build engines back then are maybe different than today's builders. when I tore apart the engine to replace the valve seals and all rubber seals, I left all bearings alone (rod, crank bearings) as I noticed the original assembly lube was still visible. I just checked and retorked the rod, and main bolts to factory specs.
 
Reason for my thinking on the oil pressure is that I also have a 77 Scout with same 345. I had it rebuilt and am getting abays out 10-14 psi at idle. maybe the bearings and "specs" are a little changed versus what was used back in the 70's/80's. I know the bearing material used today is way different than before. oh well, life goes on.

I do appreciate the input as I always have an interest in everyone's comments.

Thanks
 
Richard said:
weeeeeelllllll, it is what it is. I will be doing this on the next 345 I build. I have about 900 miles now, a couple of long highway trips (150 miles) , getting about 14 mpg on the highway, 10-11 around town. have changed out the oil twice, just to check for particles and/or metal. NONE. oil is very clean. changed to Rotella 15-40. idle oil pressure is 9-10 psi. I am ok with that.

one of the reasons I think the oil pressure is this low is that this engine is an original engine I bought from the International dealer back in 1987. it is a dealer-built engine and I am thinking how they build engines back then are maybe different than today's builders. when I tore apart the engine to replace the valve seals and all rubber seals, I left all bearings alone (rod, crank bearings) as I noticed the original assembly lube was still visible. I just checked and retorked the rod, and main bolts to factory specs.
Click to expand...
This is not a new, International-built engine that you got from an International dealership? This is a used engine, rebuilt in the International dealership service department? There can be a WORLD of difference.

For that matter, there was a company doing production-line engine overhauls--"Dealers Remanufacturing".
 
thanks for the response.

Maybe a bad choice of words. Actually, I wouldn't know if this engine is new, rebuilt, remand, or otherwise. All I know is that I bought it from the local IH dealership. It came banded on a pallet to the dealership and I paid to have it delivered to my house. As I mentioned, I am guessing that there is a difference in how engines were built back then vs. how they are built now.

Onward and upward, thanks.
 
Manufacturer-built "new" engines are consistent and good.
Production-line rebuilds are consistently average-to-poor.
Individuals rebuilding engines have wild quality swings--from "better than new" to "didn't make it past break-in".
 
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