152 no distributor spark

[Zackaddict]

Hey guys. Learning as I go so go easy one me. I’ve been working on a 1961 scout 80 with a 152 engine.

I’m stumped because I’m getting spark out of my ignition coil(when grounding our the plug wire coming out of the coil) I have 12v while cranking on the + end of the coil and the - terminal will blink(with a test light) while cranking.

But I’m not getting any spark out of the plug wires. I bought need plug wires. Then I bought a new rotor and a new cap but still nothing.

Rotor turns well while cranking.

Any thoughts? Something else I should try?

I just got the scout 80 earlier this spring. It looked like the distributor cap and rotor were new so P.O. Might have mucked around with it. So not sure if maybe they pulled it. Could the timing be off so that it’s firing between plug wire contacts?

Sorry about the novel. Any input would be helpful. Thanks guys!

 

[Zackaddict]

Also I believe it’s a delco distributor

 

[1975IH200]

You're up early today !!!

Well it may very well be a Delco or a Holley or a Prestolite...who knows what it has after 57 years???
Let's find out for sure.
It is important to know which distributor you have in order to:
1. Get the correct tune-up parts at the auto parts store on the first trip, and
2. Each distributor has specific tune-up specs.
However, how about you taking a photo or two or three of the distributor - exterior & interior.

Anyway, while you are doing that, the ignition system is just like any other points/condenser style ignition system of the period, nothing special or different.

Stick to the basics.......

Clean the points contacts, be sure the copper on the rotor & cap aren't burnt. Clean them up nicely. Be sure the condenser wire contact is clean and connected to the points. Frequently it is just dirty or burned points contacts. Use a nail file to clean those contacts up.

Check your firing order is correct 1-3-4-2-1-3-4-2-1-3-4-2-1-3-4-2-1-3-4-2 etc.......it is 1-3-4-2. clockwise rotation.

Cylinder #1 is the most forward cylinder.

If still no joy, replace the points & condenser with new high quality parts,...and clean the points contacts on the new points before installing them. Sometimes they have a light coating on them to prevent them from corroding over long period of storage. Some alcohol on a Q-Tip works well.

You can also check the condition of the spark plugs. Pull them out and look at them, take a photo of them and post it here in the thread. If in doubt, buy a new set: Champion RC-12Y I think?? Hmmmm there are others, but the parts store will have a few options for you. Nippondenso or NGK #3332 I think are a good one too.

Basically don't buy cheap tune-up parts. Buy quality!

Take photos of what is going on and check back with your updates.

I will check back on you later in the day.

 

[Zackaddict]

Hey thanks for the quick reply

How can you sleep with a beautiful international waiting for you in your garage.

I wasn’t able to tinker at all because I worked today. I got a few pictures of the distributor though. I’ll post in a few days when I get a chance to tinker with it.

Didn’t see any serial number on it but I didn’t scrub through the muck.

 

[Zackaddict]

Apparently I don’t know how attachments work. Haha

 

[1975IH200]

OK, thanks for the photos.
That is a GM-Delco distributor, and probably the original unit.
It is very dirty.

It looks like the points, condenser & rotor are fairly new.
Be sure the rotor is installed correctly.
It has a square peg and a round peg on the bottom of the rotor that fit into the distributor.

Check that the ballast resistor is not burned out and is connected to the coil + connection.
That is the small white rectangular item in the first photo.

Q. Has the Scout been running at all since your purchase?

 

[Zackaddict]

I’ve never had it running. The po started work on it but passed away and his wife just wanted it gone.

I replaced the resistor already and it’s connected to the + terminal.

 

[1975IH200]

I’ve never had it running. The po started work on it but passed away and his wife just wanted it gone.

I replaced the resistor already and it’s connected to the + terminal.

Just an FYI, that is info that should be in your first post.

So I am assuming you have a good 12V battery in the Scout and are cranking the engine over with the starter. Correct?

And you don't get any spark at any of the spark plug wires or any of the spark plugs but you do get spark at the coil wire (high tension lead) when it is removed from the distributor cap and placed near a ground. Correct?

I'd like to see the distributor cap just to be sure you have the correct cap. Should be a GM-Delco with the metal window in it for adjusting the points. Photo please.

Also, the Scout may have a resistor wire utilized by IH in lieu of the ballast resistor.
You should check that coil + wire that is feeding the ballast resistor.
You should have two feeds to the coil + terminal.
It can be wired in one of two ways.
One wire will give you full 12VDC during 'start' only and the other wire going thru the resistor will give you around 9VDC during 'run' .
This gives the coil 12 VDC to start and 9VDC to run & drive, keeping the coil & points from burning up.
The 12VDC is to get the engine started, then cuts out when the key turns back from 'start' to 'run' position.

Check it out with a VOM.

 

[Zackaddict]

Just an FYI, that is info that should be in your first post.

So I am assuming you have a good 12V battery in the Scout and are cranking the engine over with the starter. Correct?

Yessir

And you don't get any spark at any of the spark plug wires or any of the spark plugs but you do get spark at the coil wire (high tension lead) when it is removed from the distributor cap and placed near a ground. Correct?

Yessir

I'd like to see the distributor cap just to be sure you have the correct cap. Should be a GM-Delco with the metal window in it for adjusting the points. Photo please.
[/QOUTE]

Yes it’s the one with the metal window. I’ll post a picture of it later tonight.

Also, the Scout may have a resistor wire utilized by IH in lieu of the ballast resistor.
You should check that coil + wire that is feeding the ballast resistor.
You should have two feeds to the coil + terminal.
It can be wired in one of two ways.
One wire will give you full 12VDC during 'start' only and the other wire going thru the resistor will give you around 9VDC during 'run' .

This gives the coil 12 VDC to start and 9VDC to run & drive, keeping the coil & points from burning up.
The 12VDC is to get the engine started, then cuts out when the key turns back from 'start' to 'run' position.

Check it out with a VOM.

Yes this the current setup I have. I have a service manual and I’ve gone through the wiring diagram. I believe I have it wired currently in that regard.

A mechanic friend of mine said it needed to be 12v at all times. Glad you could confirm what I thought.

I’m going to use my feeler gauge to find out how much the points lever separates (sorry I don’t know the proper lingo).

Thanks so much for the input so far 1975!

 

[FDChappie]

One possibility is that the dizzy is installed a tooth off and the rotor is not aligned with a terminal. Also check the coil & plug wires for continuity.

 

[1975IH200]

Sounds good, I'll let you tinker with it for awhile and await your next update.

FYI, vehicles that have set for months and/or years tend to have gummed up fuel systems....to include the carb, fuel lines, fuel tank, fuel pump & fuel selector that need to be disassembled and cleaned or replaced.

Something to think about if you don't know the history of your Scout.

Also, old gas cannot be treated to make it good. If it is bad, it is bad forever. It is best to get rid of old gas and only use fresh fuel.
I recommend "alcohol free" gasoline if you can find some nearby.

 

[Zackaddict]

Sorry about the delay. Something weird happened when I last tried to post and it ended up not loading properly.

I’ll add the pic of the distributor cap below.


I’ve unhooked the old fuel line for now. Trying to focus on one part at a time.

Focus on spark, then compression then gas then lights then brakes then...


Is there a way to check if the rotor is off a tooth or whatnot and not firing at the correct timing? Are they any markings on the flywheel to indicate the cylinder locations?



Thoughts on what to try next?

 

[Zackaddict]

Oh and I found the pat number off the dis

 

[Zackaddict]

I don’t mean to blow up this thread but another note.

I tested the + lead on the ignition coil and while not cranking it was at roughly 5v.

Not sure if that’s the new resistor or it needs more power.

 

[1975IH200]

I don’t mean to blow up this thread but another note.

I tested the + lead on the ignition coil and while not cranking it was at roughly 5v.

Not sure if that’s the new resistor or it needs more power.

Engine 'off', ignition in 'on' or 'run' position, with a points ignition you should have around 9 vdc at the coil + terminal.

Engine starter engaged, you should have around 12 vdc (full battery voltage) at the coil + terminal.

 

[Zackaddict]

Got it!

I found that the dist port for plug 1 was the closest to the radiator and 1975 helped me to get the plug order to 1-3-4-2. Instead of the 1-3-2-4 that my manual said.


Last thing
I know it’s not really in the right thread but didn’t want to start a new one

I have this port under the intake manifold that seems to burp out gas vapor when I’m turning over the engine. Do you know what it is or what it’s suppose to do?

In the pictures you can see the ignition coil to the left.

For some reason this picture is sideways

 

[Robert Kenney]

That is where the draft tube is supposed to go. Looks like some one cut it off. The draft tube hangs down towards the bottom of the engine so the leaked combustion gasses can exit the engine and not coat it with oil. Like the side of your engine, the bottom of the car or truck eventually gets coated too. Newer engines have a closed PCV ventilation system for the inside of the engine. Yours is still setup for the non closed type. You will need a new tube or convert it to the PCV closed type.

 

[Zackaddict]

Alright. Is there any chance if you have a minute someone could snap a picture of theirs so I have a rough idea? I was trying to go off my scout 800 but it doesn’t have any port there.