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Old 07-20-2018, 07:22 AM   #1
WillyMcG
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Question Scout 80 no start with key

1964 Scout 80, 4 wd, 152, 3 speed

Been driving it for a week & a half every day to work. Yesterday turned key to start position & it wouldn't crank. Gauges came up but that's it. Used screwdriver to jump starter solenoid & I was on my way. I figured I need a new starter solenoid so I swapped one in when I got home.

New solenoid didn't fix it. I found that if I took starter wire off back of key switch & touched it to battery wire on back of key switch (with key on), it would crank & start (as if I were turning the key). So no brainer, my key switch is bad.NOPE. Swap in a new switch & same problem. I have the key switch hanging out so I can simply touch the wires together to start it till I figure this out.
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Old 07-20-2018, 09:56 AM   #2
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Default Re: Scout 80 no start with key

Key tumbler worn out?
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:02 AM   #3
Hondo
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Default Re: Scout 80 no start with key

Hi Willy, is the new switch you installed an ignition switch, or just an on off switch? Needs at least on, off, and start positions to engage the starter. Another thing to check is the wire going from the ignition switch down to the starter solenoid, sounds like there could be an issue there. An ohm meter or 12VDC test light should suffice for the check.
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1975 Scout II healthy 258, Wide T19 , 4:1 D300 3:54s,
1972 Real clean stock Scout II P/S, P/B, 345, T18, 3:73s
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:14 AM   #4
WillyMcG
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Default Re: Scout 80 no start with key

I don’t believe the key tumbler is worn out. I bought a new oem replacement from napa(identical to the original) a few months ago just because. I tested that theory by putting that old one on(it was functioning when I replaced it) & same problem.

No not a switch. It’s the oem style key tumbler with ACC, OFF, Run, & Start positions. It has six wires connected to the back of it.
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:32 PM   #5
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Default Re: Scout 80 no start with key

Ok, that is still pointing to the switch. Since you can manually jump the hot wire coming into the switch to one of the other positions on the switch and get the starter to work, it sounds like the wire going to the starter solenoid is good. I have Scout IIs so not to familiar with the 80s. While holding the switch in the start position, get a voltmeter and see if you are actually getting 12VDC to the position on the switch that you are jumping the hot wire coming into the switch to when you get the starter to engage. A picture of the back of the switch might help. I've found that with a lot of the cheap foreign made electrical parts nowadays, new doesn't always mean a lot.
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1975 Scout II healthy 258, Wide T19 , 4:1 D300 3:54s,
1972 Real clean stock Scout II P/S, P/B, 345, T18, 3:73s
1969 Mach I. Balanced ported 351W, 650 double pumper, Super T10, Detroit locker with 4.11s. Lowered with racing springs, bars, Konis etc.
(Don't worry about getting arrested when I drive the Scouts).

Last edited by Hondo; 07-23-2018 at 06:01 AM..
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:53 AM   #6
WillyMcG
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Default Re: Scout 80 no start with key

Well the starter position on the back of the key doesnt show power when I have the key in the start position so I will get a new switch/lock cylinder/etc. BUT since starting it a handful of times by touching the starter wire on the key switch to the battery wire to start the scout it now acts like the battery is dead one or two tries, then does nothing. no click, nada. I am getting 11.54 volts at the battery. What gives? My coil, points, cap, resistor, are all in good shape.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:59 PM   #7
Scoutboy74
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Default Re: Scout 80 no start with key

Your battery is severely depleted. Stored surface charge of a healthy, fully charged battery should be 12.6 - 12.8V.

11.5V is not enough to engage the starter motor. Now for the why which could include any of the following:

1. Battery has a dead cell, won't hold charge and needs to be replaced.
2. Battery is not receiving charge from alternator while engine is running for a variety of possible reasons.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:57 AM   #8
WillyMcG
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Default Re: Scout 80 no start with key

A new key switch(lock cylinder) fixed the no start with key issue. I put the trickle charger on my battery. It charged up to 12.5 in a few hours. That was plenty for it to start right up. Alternator is putting out 12.34 volts. Is that sufficient from the alternator? If so, then most likely my battery has issues?

Would the "remote starter relay installation" help with my intermittent no start issues that seem to occur randomly when the engine is "hot"( stop to run into gas station or more likely O'Reilly Auto)?
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Old 07-25-2018, 06:11 AM   #9
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Default Re: Scout 80 no start with key

No, that is not good. You should be seeing over 13V, even as much as 14V across the battery while the engine is running. Has the charging system on this Scout been updated or does it still have an external voltage regulator with the alternator?
I'd have the battery load tested anyway for piece of mind. It may be ok, but depending on how long this charging issue has been going on, it may have been harmed past the point of no return. Cranking batteries don't like being deeply depleted too many times. They like to be kept topped off as much as possible, which is what a properly functioning alternator does. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but a battery showing less than 12V across the terminals is very depleted. You'd think you'd have to see only 6V on the meter for a battery to be at fifty percent, but that isn't so. Fifty percent comes much, much sooner. When you start seeing voltage readings on a battery much below 12.5, there should be cause for concern.
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Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVWR/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x11.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/8K# winch
Lemuel - '72 1210 LWB 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/RA D60 4.10 - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Mongo - '71 1210 LWB 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Krac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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Old 07-25-2018, 11:47 AM   #10
WillyMcG
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Default Re: Scout 80 no start with key

ScoutBoy74: yes voltage regulator is still in the system. I believe it is that small silver box above the passenger headlight?

Can you point me to a “how to” thread on updating my system with a modern alternator with internatal voltage regulator?
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Old 07-25-2018, 12:24 PM   #11
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Default Re: Scout 80 no start with key

I see 10DN (external) to 10/12SI (internal) conversion kits that can be purchased online, which look to make this a nearly plug and play process, without having to butcher your existing wiring harness if it is still in good shape. The alternator would be a separate purchase. There are a ton of internet discussions concerning this very common and popular conversion, so google search is your friend.
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Favorite hobby...Driving Salma Hayek in my Scout

Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVWR/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x11.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/8K# winch
Lemuel - '72 1210 LWB 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/RA D60 4.10 - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Mongo - '71 1210 LWB 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Krac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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Old 07-27-2018, 06:07 AM   #12
WillyMcG
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Default Re: Scout 80 no start with key

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoutboy74 View Post
I see 10DN (external) to 10/12SI (internal) conversion kits that can be purchased online, which look to make this a nearly plug and play process, without having to butcher your existing wiring harness if it is still in good shape. The alternator would be a separate purchase. There are a ton of internet discussions concerning this very common and popular conversion, so google search is your friend.
I have confirmed my existing alternator is a 10SI & is not putting out enough "juice". I am curious to know if there is any "deletion" that should have been done with the voltage regulator when the 10SI was installed? Can you simply install the 10Si with proper wiring & leave the voltage regulator?
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Old 07-27-2018, 06:26 AM   #13
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Default Re: Scout 80 no start with key

The external VR could have been left in place for no purpose as long as the wiring to it had been properly re-routed to bypass it and incorporate the 10si. It becomes a dead weight artifact at that point. What's your history with this vehicle? Do you have good reason to believe that the charging system was ever working properly while you've owned it?
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Favorite hobby...Driving Salma Hayek in my Scout

Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVWR/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x11.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/8K# winch
Lemuel - '72 1210 LWB 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/RA D60 4.10 - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Mongo - '71 1210 LWB 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Krac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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Old 07-28-2018, 03:06 PM   #14
WillyMcG
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Exclamation Re: Scout 80 no start with key

Interesting....hmm I could post some pictures of the alternator wiring if that would be helpful. My history with this vehicle: owned for a year & a half. Just got it almost reliable & safe to drive this year. I had some new experiences such as pulling the motor, taking it apart & discovering the cylinders weren’t worth sleeving due to cost. So I found a “rebuilt” 152 locally & got that installed. The only wiring work I really have done was sort out the gauge wiring & put new “guts” for the temp & fuel gauges. I have a good relationship with an independent auto parts store with knowledgeable staff. I am going to take the alternator & battery there next week for testing. My own test seem to show that the alternator is bad. Not sure about the battery. I usually keep it on a trickle charger. This weekend I started taking stuff off the motor to replace the “water tube” o-rings because I believe they are the source of a coolant leak.
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Old 07-28-2018, 03:42 PM   #15
Scoutboy74
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Default Re: Scout 80 no start with key

If the alt fails the bench test, it will have to be replaced. If you get a new one installed and you see that its making good voltage at the battery with the engine running, you could leave things at that. If a new alt still isn't making good volts at the battery, or if your current alt passes the bench test, then you've got to be suspicious of the associated wiring.
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Favorite hobby...Driving Salma Hayek in my Scout

Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVWR/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x11.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/8K# winch
Lemuel - '72 1210 LWB 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/RA D60 4.10 - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Mongo - '71 1210 LWB 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Krac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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