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Old 08-12-2019, 05:42 PM   #1
mitchdawg22
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Default T-19 Shifting Question

Hello,

I have a 1967 Scout 800, with a 345, Scout ii axels, rebuilt T-19 transmission mated to a Dana 20, all of which were installed or rebuilt in a partial restoration about 2,000 miles ago. I'm having some issues with the transmission, I haven't seen any similar issues in other posts, apologies if I missed it, but wanted to see if others may be familiar with the symptoms before I pulled it...appreciate any help in advance!

There are four issues:

1) When cold, it sticks a little in first when trying to shift into second. No problem once it's warmed up.

2) When upshifting into second, 9/10 times, it's difficult to shift; you have to apply a decent amount of force and there's feedback (not grinding) but resistance against getting it into gear. Double clutching doesn't solve this problem. 1/10 times it shifts flawless.

3) When down or upshifting into 3rd, it either grinds and won't go into gear at all or you can feel some resistance / feedback. Almost like a hitch when you try and put it into gear. Rev matching helps on the downshifts but it's not perfect.

4) When idling or in gear driving, there is a rattle and vibration coming through the clutch pedal. If I very lightly depress the clutch pedal, it goes away. I've maxed out the clutch adj, I can't seem to solve it unless I cut the clutch linkage down.

My first thought was that the synchros are worn, however, the transmission was just rebuilt and it sounds rather rare to have two worn synchros in a T-19 with such low mileage. Also, I would think double clutching should eliminate the synchos but that doesn't seem to make the shifting more smooth, especially into and out of 2nd.

Could it be a throwout bearing issue? Or the clutch fork? Lubrication or fluid? All of the above?

The Scout had been stored and not run for about 9 months. These issues started about 200 miles after it was run again.

Many thanks in advance.

Last edited by mitchdawg22; 08-12-2019 at 06:47 PM..
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Old 08-12-2019, 07:21 PM   #2
FDChappie
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Default Re: T-19 Shifting Question

Sounds like it could be a pilot bearing. Is it hard to shift from neutral into first or reverse when not moving?
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:01 PM   #3
mitchdawg22
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Default Re: T-19 Shifting Question

Thanks, I hadn't though about that.

Never had any problems shifting into first.

There are problems shifting into reverse, maybe 25% of the time when I engage the clutch it won't move down into reverse, it's like pulling against a wall. I have to either shift into another gear, still holding the clutch, then into reverse (which works sometimes when it won't go into gear) or disengage the clutch and try again. It does go into reverse gear every time on the second clutch engagement though this typically results in a minor grind. The other 75% of the time there are no issues shifting into reverse.

One other clarifying thing is that I've had the issue shifting into reverse since the rebuild. Maybe 1,800 miles after the rebuild is when I started having issues shifting into 2nd and then maybe another 100 or 200 miles after that (~2,000 miles after), 3rd gear developed it's issue. So it was staggered. The vibration through the clutch pedal has been around for a while; I'm not exactly sure when it started.

Last edited by mitchdawg22; 08-12-2019 at 08:54 PM..
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Old 08-13-2019, 05:23 AM   #4
Winchested
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Default Re: T-19 Shifting Question

What oil did you put in the transmission? Oil has a huge factor on shift performance.
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Old 08-13-2019, 06:06 AM   #5
mitchdawg22
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Default Re: T-19 Shifting Question

Mobil 1 SAE 50 2,000 miles ago.

I have not checked the level, that's this weekends project, but I don't see any obvious leaks on the garage floor.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:41 AM   #6
Robert Kenney
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Default Re: T-19 Shifting Question

I assume the bell housing location pins are in place? The bell housing is flat and true (front and rear faces are parallel) and the transmission is locating correctly on the bore ID.

After reading all of the symptoms, I think it is the clutch.

Two ways to check.
1) Engine Off, put it in 3rd or 4th gear, have someone push the clutch pedal to the floor and see if it rolls easily.

Pull the clutch cover and see if you can spin the clutch disk while the pedal is on the floor and transmission in neutral. It should spin freely and move easily on the input shaft splines.
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Last edited by Robert Kenney; 08-13-2019 at 03:03 PM..
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:09 AM   #7
Hondo
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Default Re: T-19 Shifting Question

I'll agree that it sounds like a clutch or pilot bearing issue. There is also a spring in the T-19s top cover linkage that can break and cause you grief. I doubt it would get replaced in a typical rebuild. I did a post titled "T-19 hard to get into 3rd gear" back in 7/13 you can look up to see the spring I'm talking about.
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1975 Scout II healthy 258, Wide T19 , 4:1 D300 3:54s,
1972 Real clean stock Scout II P/S, P/B, 345, T18, 3:73s
1969 Mach I. Balanced ported 351W, 650 double pumper, Super T10, Detroit locker with 4.11s. Lowered with racing springs, bars, Konis etc.
(Don't worry about getting arrested when I drive the Scouts).
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:03 AM   #8
mitchdawg22
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Default Re: T-19 Shifting Question

Thanks for the suggestions. I will test and play with the clutch this weekend and come back with the results. Appreciate all of the help.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:56 AM   #9
mitchdawg22
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Default Re: T-19 Shifting Question

It doesn't appear to be the clutch. I tried putting it in 3rd and 4th, engaging clutch and had a buddy push the car. It rolled no problem. Clutch seems free and clear.

Strangely enough, it was shifting much better into and out of 3rd, I only had one issue over about 50 miles. Still had some feedback / resistance getting from 1st into 2nd but I found that aggressively rev matching solved the problem. Not just a "blip" of throttle but flooring it twice in quick succession to get near max revs.

I guess that leaves me back at the synchros.
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Old 08-20-2019, 07:30 PM   #10
Hondo
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Default Re: T-19 Shifting Question

Have you tried pulling the access cover off the bottom of the bell housing to try and see what's going on? A couple of other things to check if you take the access cover off is if the pressure plate is fully seated against the flywheel. I had that issue when I installed some new after market bolts there. The bolts can bottom out in their holes before the pressure plate is fully seated, especially if the flywheel has been turned multiple times. Adding a few washers or grinding down the bolts a little will fix that problem. Those bolts should also have small shoulders on them that fit tightly in the pressure plate and protrude a little into counterbores on the flywheel. Had to apologize and buy a 12 pack of Pacifico for the guy who rebuilt the clutch and pressure plate for messing up his good work, he was kind of pissed off. Also make sure the nuts on the studs that hold the transmission to the bell housing are good and tight. Is that Mobile 1 engine oil? I run Redline MT 90 in all mine.
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1975 Scout II healthy 258, Wide T19 , 4:1 D300 3:54s,
1972 Real clean stock Scout II P/S, P/B, 345, T18, 3:73s
1969 Mach I. Balanced ported 351W, 650 double pumper, Super T10, Detroit locker with 4.11s. Lowered with racing springs, bars, Konis etc.
(Don't worry about getting arrested when I drive the Scouts).
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Old 08-22-2019, 06:26 AM   #11
Hondo
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Default Re: T-19 Shifting Question

At this point other things to check are your motor mounts and transmission mounts. If the motor or transmission are moving around it will raise havoc with your clutch linkage.
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1975 Scout II healthy 258, Wide T19 , 4:1 D300 3:54s,
1972 Real clean stock Scout II P/S, P/B, 345, T18, 3:73s
1969 Mach I. Balanced ported 351W, 650 double pumper, Super T10, Detroit locker with 4.11s. Lowered with racing springs, bars, Konis etc.
(Don't worry about getting arrested when I drive the Scouts).
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