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Old 05-20-2019, 10:51 AM   #1
sloantx
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Default '69 800 BW11 tranny swap recommendations

I have a '69 2wd Post office. 4cyl w/ BW11 auto. won't shift into 3rd. pukes tranny fluid out the shift selector input shaft any time it sits long enough for the torque converter to drain. I want to get rid of it and upgrade. not sure where to start.

Should i get an adapter plate and put in a GM tranny or should I try to swap to a later model IH auto? If so, does a later tranny bellhousing belt patter match the older 4cyl? Engine is strong with good compression. I'd like to keep it and swap the tranny...but at this point I could be convinced to do a full engine and tranny swap to get something reliable.

THANKS in advance.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:39 AM   #2
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Default Re: '69 800 BW11 tranny swap recommendations

Your options include either rebuilding or having the present BW rebuilt, sourcing another runner BW from an 800 model 4x2 Scout (hens' teeth?) or sourcing a 4speed manual plus pedal assembly, slave cylinder etc from an 800 model 4x2 Scout. I say 4x2 because the 4x4 models have married transfer cases so there's likely to be a prop shaft length difference...unless you want to convert to 4x4 while you're at it.
The IH case pattern of the Torqueflite 727 was installed behind 196 engines in the later Scout II models, but the engines in the SII are mounted upright, where as the engines in the 800 are clocked 15 degrees to the left hand side, so I don't know how groovy that would be for trans fluid flow having it canted to the side, plus potential clearance issues. You'd also need a 196 TF flexplate to go along with it, as IH engines are externally balanced, so proper ring gearing plays a roll in that balance equation. Plenty of folks have swapped the V8 version of the TF 727 behind the 266 and 304 SV8 version 800 Scouts, but the engine mounting, radiator core and other things are quite a bit different to accommodate the V8 engine. Then there's always the "some other make" option as you mentioned in your query. And it has been done lot's of times, but your looking at plenty of fabricating and tin trimming to make it happen. There's no bolt in and go when you start looking at other makes as a power train source. Sorry, there's really no quick and easy answer for you. It's a hand wringing conundrum no matter which direction you turn. The very best thing might be to fix what you have, because you know it fits and works. Next best would be to convert to manual from another 800 4x2 version. But, some people have an aversion to standard transmissions.
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Old 05-23-2019, 02:01 PM   #3
sloantx
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Default Re: '69 800 BW11 tranny swap recommendations

Thank you for your thorough response. You confirmed all my fears. I would rebuild the tranny, but I haven't found a solution for it puking fluid out of the shift selector as it appears they didn't put O-rings our seals in that shaft (appreciate if you have any info that validates that).

I'd be willing to consider a full swap from a Scout II with a 196 and 727. I'm reluctant to go to manual because this is right hand drive and that's going to be wonky for my son (well, for me too probably to be honest).
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Old 05-23-2019, 07:33 PM   #4
Scoutboy74
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Default Re: '69 800 BW11 tranny swap recommendations

I don't know much about those Borg autos. I'm more familiar with the 727. Yeah, if you swapped a SII 196 and mated 727, that would solve the clocking issue for the trans, but would likely create some clearance issues in the engine bay having it be upright. That was the main reason for the clocked engine. It's crazy to think that a 304 V8 actually sits in the bay better than a 4-popper half the size! It's all about the angles of the cylinder banks. The Scout 80 and 4cyl 800 models were shoehorn engineering at it's finest. Then being RH drive throws another monkey in the wrench, as if there weren't enough already. I imagine you're attached enough to the quirky bugger that going in a completely different direction isn't that appealing.
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Lemuel - '73 1210 Reg Cab 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/4.09 FA25 & 4.10 RA16/6800# GVW - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Organ Donor - '72 1210 Reg Cab 2WD - seized 392/TF727/7500# GVW - "Use my body to keep you alive!"
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Old 05-23-2019, 10:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: '69 800 BW11 tranny swap recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by sloantx View Post
I would rebuild the tranny, but I haven't found a solution for it puking fluid out of the shift selector as it appears they didn't put O-rings our seals in that shaft (appreciate if you have any info that validates that). .

Per Manual CTS-2494-G, the manual shift shaft has a seal.

Installing a Scout II 4-196 engine into a RH drive Scout 800 will create serious steering column issues.
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Old 05-24-2019, 10:54 AM   #6
Greg R
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Default Re: '69 800 BW11 tranny swap recommendations

Yes the shifter shaft has a seal, not an O ring. You have to get into the case and unhook the parking pawl and linkage to pull the shaft to replace the seal.
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Old 05-28-2019, 03:28 AM   #7
sloantx
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Default Re: '69 800 BW11 tranny swap recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1975IH200 View Post
Per Manual CTS-2494-G, the manual shift shaft has a seal.

Installing a Scout II 4-196 engine into a RH drive Scout 800 will create serious steering column issues.
You say "manual shift shaft". This is an automatic tranny. Just wanted to make sure I was clear on what you mean by manual shift. And thank you for your response!!!
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Old 05-28-2019, 03:31 AM   #8
sloantx
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Default Re: '69 800 BW11 tranny swap recommendations

I'm more and more tempted at this point to cut my losses and look for a left hand drive rolling chassis and swap over as many parts as I can and be done with the RHD model. while it's cool, it's been non-stop challenges on almost every front.
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Old 05-28-2019, 07:23 AM   #9
Scoutboy74
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Default Re: '69 800 BW11 tranny swap recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by sloantx View Post
You say "manual shift shaft". This is an automatic tranny. Just wanted to make sure I was clear on what you mean by manual shift. And thank you for your response!!!
You were clear. They're referring to a part that goes to the auto trans that has failed and needs replaced.
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Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVW/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/33g Fuel
Lemuel - '73 1210 Reg Cab 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/4.09 FA25 & 4.10 RA16/6800# GVW - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Organ Donor - '72 1210 Reg Cab 2WD - seized 392/TF727/7500# GVW - "Use my body to keep you alive!"
Mongo - '71 1210 Reg Cab 2WD - 345/TF727/4.10 RA17/6100# GVW - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:10 AM   #10
1975IH200
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Default Re: '69 800 BW11 tranny swap recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by sloantx View Post
You say "manual shift shaft". This is an automatic tranny. Just wanted to make sure I was clear on what you mean by manual shift. And thank you for your response!!!
That is the nomenclature utilized by the manufacturer (Borg Warner) for the automatic transmissions' "manual shift shaft", since it is manually actuated by the shift lever in the cab of the truck.
The seal on this manual shift shaft is deteriorated/leaking. The seal can be replaced with a new seal.

The BW autos can be rebuilt.
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