IH PARTS AMERICA
Click Here!

Go Back   IH PARTS AMERICA > Tech Forums > Ignition Tech
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Photo Gallery IH Store Home

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-26-2018, 09:19 PM   #1
Yellowscout74
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member Number: 9372
Location: Seattle
Posts: 16
Default 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

Got my 74 Scout 2 about 8 weeks ago. runs good but now i keep having a battery drain issue. I noticed this weekend that when i take the key out in either the lock position or the ON position, the fuel gauge seems to be on. I can also turn the fan on, the headlights and other electrical switches like wipers etc.. Should all of that work with the ignition in lock or ON? when i say on, its the first position after lock. i can remove the key on this rig with the motor running or not and in any position.

So to my questions? should power be available when the key ignition is in the lock or next position? do i need a new ignition so the key just doesnt come out when its running? also noticed that my blinkers didnt work during an evening drive when they worked earlier. now they work fine the next morning... Any help here would be appreciated.

1974 scout 2
345 V8 motor
Holley 2 bbl carb... fairly black in the inside.

New queston. should this motor and year have a choke? starts hard and usually have to use starter fluid direct into carb. parked on a downhill driveway most of the time.. not that i know if that matters.
Yellowscout74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 01:32 AM   #2
Winchested
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Member Number: 9303
Posts: 43
Default Re: 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

Sounds to me like you need a new Key tumbler installed. They are cheap but you need a steering wheel puller and lock plate remover to get to it.
Winchested is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 02:15 AM   #3
1975IH200
Senior Member
 
1975IH200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Member Number: 731
Location: 3rd to last cave on the right
Posts: 555
Default Re: 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

1) Key in 'ON' position: all electrical gauges and functions will operate.

Key in 'LOCK' position: all gauges inoperative (except ammeter), and only the interior lights & exterior lights will operate.
No fan or radio or wipers etc.

I agree, ignition lock cylinder & key are worn excessively.

2) Choke....yes your carb should have an automatic choke of some type.

Typically a divorced choke on the right side of the carb/intake manifold with a vacuum operated choke pull-off device on the right rear of the carb would be standard for that year and carb.

It may need adjusted/repaired or it may be missing or it may have been replaced by a manually operated choke cable or something else, .....?

Orientation of the vehicle should not matter.

Please take photos of the carb from each side and post them up on this thread.
__________________

My Junk --> 1975 "200HD" AWD Truck
My Cave location --> Western North Carolina

Last edited by 1975IH200; 08-27-2018 at 02:22 AM..
1975IH200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 06:31 AM   #4
Yellowscout74
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member Number: 9372
Location: Seattle
Posts: 16
Default Re: 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

Thanks for the quick reply! I will take some photos this evening after work. The pictures will make more sense for the choke as I think the previous owner has some spring jerry-rigged on to the carb.

For the new ignition tumbler.. Do I have to get new keys as well or do I want to stay away from the semi worn out ones? I want to replace the steering wheel anyway so I guess it's the time.

I saw somewhere that you need a conversion or adapter kit to change to an aftermarket steering wheel? True?

Thanks again!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 4A7F5391-CA9B-437A-AA63-D556436F6CAC.jpg (71.4 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg E5A740DE-0AE5-44A7-8596-DC37DDEF1884.jpg (54.4 KB, 51 views)
Yellowscout74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 11:31 AM   #5
Hondo
Senior Member
 
Hondo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Member Number: 4714
Location: Fremont
Posts: 493
Default Re: 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

If I recall correctly, the actual ignition switch is located down near the bottom of the steering column inside the truck. There is a long skinny rod type thingy that goes from the key lock in the column down to the actual ignition switch. If the switch itself is sticky, the rod may be deflecting and not really activating it. Nice looking Scout.
__________________
1975 Scout II healthy 258, Wide T19 , 4:1 D300 3:54s,
1972 Real clean stock Scout II P/S, P/B, 345, T18, 3:73s
1969 Mach I. Balanced ported 351W, 650 double pumper, Super T10, Detroit locker with 4.11s. Lowered with racing springs, bars, Konis etc.
(Don't worry about getting arrested when I drive the Scouts).
Hondo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2018, 08:49 PM   #6
Yellowscout74
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member Number: 9372
Location: Seattle
Posts: 16
Default Re: 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

Thanks all for the help here. I am posting the pics of the carb and steering column. had a good call with someone at IH parts about my ignition. i have some work to do but any more ideas are appreciated.

as you can see in one of the pics. there is a spring on the choke side that the previous owner added.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_2530.jpg (95.8 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2532.jpg (98.8 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2538.jpg (79.8 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2539.jpg (97.8 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2534[1].jpg (103.0 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2542[1].jpg (92.8 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2533[1].jpg (95.8 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2536[1].jpg (50.8 KB, 28 views)
Yellowscout74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2018, 01:16 AM   #7
1975IH200
Senior Member
 
1975IH200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Member Number: 731
Location: 3rd to last cave on the right
Posts: 555
Default Re: 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

First, thank you for the photos.

Re: Choke Issue....

Your Scout has a "divorced choke" which is the metal box attached to the intake manifold on the right side. In the box is a coiled flat spring which operates the vertical rod that is attached to the choke plate linkage.

The "choke pull-off" is the vacuum operated device on the right rear of the carb which also attaches to the choke plate linkage.

In order for you to have a normally starting and functioning carb & engine, both of these have to work properly.

The "PO" in your case has installed a coil spring which is defeating the purpose of the two choke controlling items.
I would assume one or both of the divorced choke and the choke pull-off are defective and / or the divorced choke needs adjusted.

I suggest you remove the shiny coil spring that the PO installed and see how the choke operates without it.
Try starting the Scout and see what happens.
After you do that, and reply with results we can regroup to see what needs to be done next.

NOTE: the choke pull-off is easy replaceable and was a common failure item when carbs were commonly utilized. The divorced choke is adjustable in two ways: 1) by bending the operating rod a bit at a time, and 2) by a screw & lock nut on the front side of the stove which adjusts the tension of the internal spring.
__________________

My Junk --> 1975 "200HD" AWD Truck
My Cave location --> Western North Carolina
1975IH200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2018, 12:41 PM   #8
Yellowscout74
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member Number: 9372
Location: Seattle
Posts: 16
Default Re: 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

Thanks!

I added a photo to confirm the parts as I think you are describing and actions.
Attached Images
 
Yellowscout74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2018, 08:03 PM   #9
Yellowscout74
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member Number: 9372
Location: Seattle
Posts: 16
Default Re: 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

Ok. So removed the spring.. took all the parts off and cleaned them up and made sure they worked. Put it all back together... what a sweet sound to hear it fire up on the first turn of thee key. no cranking. no starter fluid.. nada... ran great. adjusted the idle a bit as it was really fast. Thank you!

On a down note... took off the steering wheel shroud and could not really see anything in regards to the Steering Column Ignition Switch Sector & Rack Gear

this was the plastic part at the base of the column where it meets the dash.

I was told that this may be what is not moving enough to disengage the key control into the ignition switch.. keeping power to the fan and wipers when in lock and off key position.


Does anyone know what the part is that i labeled as 'unknown part' and 'unknown part 2"? this was connected to the choke


Any thoughts?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_2554.jpg (54.4 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2555.jpg (54.6 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2561.jpg (34.0 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg Unknown part.jpg (72.2 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg unknown part 2.jpg (75.0 KB, 32 views)
Yellowscout74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 02:31 AM   #10
1975IH200
Senior Member
 
1975IH200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Member Number: 731
Location: 3rd to last cave on the right
Posts: 555
Default Re: 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

Quote - "Does anyone know what the part is that I labeled as 'unknown part' and 'unknown part 2'? This was connected to the choke."

That is a electrical choke heating element.
It is explained in the Service Manual.
Not all carbs have them.
It only operates for a few minutes when the engine is cold to assist in opening the choke as the engine warms up.

Not really necessary in my opinion.
__________________

My Junk --> 1975 "200HD" AWD Truck
My Cave location --> Western North Carolina
1975IH200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 03:47 AM   #11
Yellowscout74
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member Number: 9372
Location: Seattle
Posts: 16
Default Re: 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

Thanks.. Service manual is ordered. Just not arrived yet. I don't live in a cold enough climate to need it... But I'll leave it where it is.


Any advice on the steering column and how to got to electronic element for the key? Having that as my constant potential power drain is a worry...

Thanks again
Yellowscout74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 08:12 AM   #12
1975IH200
Senior Member
 
1975IH200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Member Number: 731
Location: 3rd to last cave on the right
Posts: 555
Default Re: 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

Choke - Yes, you will probably be fine without the choke heater. My truck has the divorced choke and vacuum choke pull-off (without the heater) on a ThermoQuad 4-barrell carb and it starts just fine: hot, cold, cold soaked, you name it. Start it, idle for 60 seconds, drive away.


Column - FYI, the Scout II steering column is a Saginaw (manufacturer) unit.

Saginaw made millions of these steering columns for GM cars & trucks in the 70's and 80's. They are identical to yours except for minor differenced like overall length, mounting, color, and style of steering wheel.

My point is, there is a plethora of info on the Saginaw steering column on the internet (You Tube) that one could easily find if they so chose.

Other people with more experience on these units than me have already made the videos, etc.
__________________

My Junk --> 1975 "200HD" AWD Truck
My Cave location --> Western North Carolina

Last edited by 1975IH200; 08-29-2018 at 08:17 AM..
1975IH200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 08:16 AM   #13
Yellowscout74
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member Number: 9372
Location: Seattle
Posts: 16
Default Re: 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

Awesome. Thanks
Yellowscout74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 08:43 AM   #14
Hondo
Senior Member
 
Hondo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Member Number: 4714
Location: Fremont
Posts: 493
Default Re: 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

Here are a few pictures showing where the actual ignition switch is located. The arrow in the ignition switch picture is showing the back of the switch, the front is hard to get a picture of. The switch is difficult to access, which is probably a good thing. The arrow on the copy of your picture shows the actuating rod, it should move when you cycle through the different switch positions. The bundle of wires going up into the top of the steering column is for turn signal switch, emergency flasher switch, and horn.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Ignition switch.jpg (66.0 KB, 58 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2555.jpg (100.4 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg steering column.jpg (105.0 KB, 54 views)
__________________
1975 Scout II healthy 258, Wide T19 , 4:1 D300 3:54s,
1972 Real clean stock Scout II P/S, P/B, 345, T18, 3:73s
1969 Mach I. Balanced ported 351W, 650 double pumper, Super T10, Detroit locker with 4.11s. Lowered with racing springs, bars, Konis etc.
(Don't worry about getting arrested when I drive the Scouts).
Hondo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 12:11 PM   #15
Yellowscout74
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member Number: 9372
Location: Seattle
Posts: 16
Default Re: 74 scout 2 lock position for key power stiil on?

I was able to see the accentuator rod move up and down with the turn of the key. I was actually able to move the rod manually and turn off the car.

So I know it moves. Its a matter if something is stuck below that keeping the circuit open in some way that is allowing for the accessories to still be able to be used when the key is in lock position.

I will keep investigating. I did order the new key tumbler to install so I cant just pull the keys out when its running. in the mean time I am going to test the power being pulled as it sits in the driveway.

Thanks again...
Yellowscout74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery, ignition, key, starting

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:07 PM.