IH PARTS AMERICA
Click Here!

Go Back   IH PARTS AMERICA > Tech Forums > Gas Engine Tech
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Photo Gallery IH Store Home

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-05-2018, 08:40 AM   #166
1975IH200
Senior Member
 
1975IH200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Member Number: 731
Location: 3rd to last cave on the right
Posts: 554
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Be aware, only one head will get oil at a time.

The #2 cam bearing feeds the left head and #4 cam bearing feeds the right head.
The cam bearing holes do not align to feed oil at the same time.
So rotate the crankshaft slowly by hand while pressurizing the oil system.
As you get one head to receive oil, let it run for a minute or so, then rotate the crankshaft slowly until the other head gets oil. Then lube it for a few minutes.
It should all be explained in the Old Iron write-up.

I'll attach a SV-8 oil diagram that may help you understand the oiling system.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf SV-8 Lubrication Diagram.PDF (872.0 KB, 26 views)
__________________

My Junk --> 1975 "200HD" AWD Truck
My Cave location --> Western North Carolina

Last edited by 1975IH200; 09-05-2018 at 08:45 AM..
1975IH200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 08:45 AM   #167
428street
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Member Number: 7660
Location: Milford, CT
Age: 50
Posts: 179
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

This is all good stuff. I have the diagram and the old iron article but running this solo and never doing anything like this is a bit scary for me but I'm getting through it. The small tidbits are the good stuff like knowing oil will oil get the one side until I more the crankshaft to do the other. That would have mind f'd me for sure...I get all the theory, I just don't have the experience but I'm working on it...thanks again for the info...going to local auto place to pick up what I need for the gauge, tubbing and fitting...
428street is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 10:36 AM   #168
428street
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Member Number: 7660
Location: Milford, CT
Age: 50
Posts: 179
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Just ordered the gauge, tube and fitting...
428street is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 12:01 PM   #169
Richard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Member Number: 969
Location: So Cal
Posts: 200
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

hey there 428street:

I thought I would chime in re: your engine and the oil pump. Yes, you can do the drill with one hand, and with a socket/1/2 inch ratchet (long one if possible), "slowly" turn the crank, I mean real slow. If the VC's are off, you will see the rocker arm assembly start to fill with oil. Also, what I did was when I found that "sweet spot", I marked the crank balancer with white paint at the TDC mark. There will be two of these, one for each side of engine rocker arm assembly.

Enjoy!.
Richard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 05:46 AM   #170
428street
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Member Number: 7660
Location: Milford, CT
Age: 50
Posts: 179
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Thank you.
428street is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2018, 11:23 AM   #171
Ricky B
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Member Number: 5277
Location: So Cal
Posts: 29
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Hey Folks, 2 quick tourist questions for y'all:

1). When using your drill motor to spin the oil pump and pre-prime things, will the crank and cam shaft fill with oil no matter WHAT position the crankshaft is? Or does it need to be turned a few degrees before spinning the oil pump again?

2). I had decent oil pressure the first 600 miles I drove it last month....before I took everything off to clean, re-gasket, replace or repair (except the crank, the piston and the camshaft). Oil pump gears were in great condition and the spring measured out perfectly. While I had it apart I added an .070" washer and re-gasketed her. This one had the cover plate style pump (body, thin steel plate and then the 1/4" thick outside cover plate. My Fel-Pro gasket set didn't come with any that exactly fit my pump, so I made one very thin gasket (.006") and then another for the cover plate that was .010". Now I can't get her to pump oil from the pan no matter how long I spin the drill or at what speed. Did I screw up by doubling the 'space' inside the pump body? I can almost garantee that new O ring at the pickup tube is sealing properly and the pickup screen is spotless. Has 6.75 quarts of brand new oil in the pan and the new WIX filter was prefilled and is 75% full at the moment. I also cleaned out the mechanical o/pressure gauge and tube and fittings and is installed in the block properly. But unlike my last SV engine I did the exact same thing to, I just can't get the pump to pump. Also I noticed this time around I'm also not feeling the same 'resistance' with my drill motor as I felt four years ago on my last engine.

Ideas?.......
__________________
I support gay marriage. As long as both chicks are hot...
Ricky B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2018, 12:06 PM   #172
Scoutboy74
Moderator
 
Scoutboy74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Member Number: 453
Location: Daze Crick, Jefferson
Posts: 4,061
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

You should be feeling resistance against the drill motor quite soon as the lubrication system becomes pressurized, no matter where the engine is sitting in terms of rotation. Part of the ongoing pre-lube process involves engine rotation by hand in small increments for one full revolution, in conjunction with continued pump spinning to ensure that adequate lubrication has reached every portion of the top end, as well as all cam and crank shaft bearing lubrication points.
Unless your chucked drive tool just didn't engage with the oil pump drive shaft, it would appear that something within your oil pump modification and reassembly process has failed. As far as specifics there, I can't really go beyond this Captain Obvious-like response. The pump would need to come out for inspection on your bench to determine the exact cause.
__________________
Favorite hobby...Driving Salma Hayek in my Scout

Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVWR/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x11.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/8K# winch
Lemuel - '72 1210 LWB 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/RA D60 4.10 - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Mongo - '71 1210 LWB 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Krac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
Scoutboy74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2018, 01:04 PM   #173
Winchested
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Member Number: 9303
Posts: 41
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky B View Post
Hey Folks, 2 quick tourist questions for y'all:

1). When using your drill motor to spin the oil pump and pre-prime things, will the crank and cam shaft fill with oil no matter WHAT position the crankshaft is? Or does it need to be turned a few degrees before spinning the oil pump again?

2). I had decent oil pressure the first 600 miles I drove it last month....before I took everything off to clean, re-gasket, replace or repair (except the crank, the piston and the camshaft). Oil pump gears were in great condition and the spring measured out perfectly. While I had it apart I added an .070" washer and re-gasketed her. This one had the cover plate style pump (body, thin steel plate and then the 1/4" thick outside cover plate. My Fel-Pro gasket set didn't come with any that exactly fit my pump, so I made one very thin gasket (.006") and then another for the cover plate that was .010". Now I can't get her to pump oil from the pan no matter how long I spin the drill or at what speed. Did I screw up by doubling the 'space' inside the pump body? I can almost garantee that new O ring at the pickup tube is sealing properly and the pickup screen is spotless. Has 6.75 quarts of brand new oil in the pan and the new WIX filter was prefilled and is 75% full at the moment. I also cleaned out the mechanical o/pressure gauge and tube and fittings and is installed in the block properly. But unlike my last SV engine I did the exact same thing to, I just can't get the pump to pump. Also I noticed this time around I'm also not feeling the same 'resistance' with my drill motor as I felt four years ago on my last engine.

Ideas?.......
Yes you did screw up. You should have matched the gaskets that were in there. The gears should only have .003" hosuing clearance.
Winchested is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2018, 02:58 PM   #174
Dealbreaker74
Senior Member
 
Dealbreaker74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Member Number: 697
Location: Monrovia, CA
Posts: 421
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Even .016" gap wouldn't prohibit some pressure build. Are you sure the drill was spinning clockwise? I always pack the gears with bearing grease after service to help them make a good seal and create enough vacuum to draw oil from the pan. Not sure if that's even necessary, just my thing.
Like Trever said, unless you totally goofed the spinning thingy in the pump slot, I'm at a loss to explain this situation...

Unless... The gap is too great for an un-primed pump and you're just sucking air above the oil level. Still, the only way out for the air is around the shaft which is a much tighter fit than the one created by the gaskets. All I can think of is that there is a lack of vacuum being created by the dry pump gears. Again, the grease. Not much help now, I know. Clue us in when you figure it out. I'm curious!

Last edited by Dealbreaker74; 11-30-2018 at 03:06 PM..
Dealbreaker74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2018, 05:52 PM   #175
dkminors
Senior Member
 
dkminors's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Member Number: 1337
Location: Milpitas, CA
Posts: 367
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

There are holes drilled all the way through the bearing surfaces from one side of the cam bearing to the other. The rotation of those holes only lines up with the pressurized oil gallery maybe 5% of the rotation. It is only during that alignment that you will get pressure through the cam to the upper end of the engine. You are rotating slowly so you can be sure to catch those openings. If you don't rotate (and aren't lucky enough to be lined up already) or don't rotate so that you make the holes align you won't see the pressure you are looking for.
__________________
1975 Scout II 304 4-speed
dkminors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2018, 07:36 PM   #176
Dealbreaker74
Senior Member
 
Dealbreaker74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Member Number: 697
Location: Monrovia, CA
Posts: 421
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

This problem is not rocker oiling, but getting the oil pump to prime. His drill-down-the-distributor hole trick isn't working for some reason.
Dealbreaker74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2018, 06:56 PM   #177
Ricky B
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Member Number: 5277
Location: So Cal
Posts: 29
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Thanx, Folks, I solved the problem about three hours after posting this....very simply and took less than five minutes;

1). Removed oil filter.

2). Found a very nice 90 degree soft rubber elbow in my new Mity Vac kit. The larger (though very much shorter end) is tapered. Wedged that into the 3/8" oil passage inside of the filter mount.

3). Ran a 1/4" i.d. plastic tube into the other end, then stuffed that one into a 3/8' i.d. clear plastic hose. Very tight.

4). Put seven ounces of new motor oil into an empty one quart gear oil container with the tapered cap on it.

5). Back-filled the oil pump with 6 oz's of new oil.

6). Reinstalled pre-filled oil flter.

7). Spun oil pump for less than twenty seconds at around 800 rpm's until oil pressure gauge needle started moving. Increased rpm's to around 1200 and gauge showed 28-ish. Had my friend turn the crank pulley bolt a few times a little bit until I saw oil. Rev'd her up to maybe 2200 rpm's and saw 50 psi-plus.

8). Long story short, got oil to both heads, then installed the rocker arm assemblies the next day and got oil to everything upstairs. So I think I'm good at the moment. Big day is tomorrow after I install new grounds (transmission/engine ground to firewall was like a #16 wire and completely Titanic'd) and the battery on the passenger side and finally hit the key. Good times.....I hope.....
__________________
I support gay marriage. As long as both chicks are hot...
Ricky B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2018, 08:30 PM   #178
Dealbreaker74
Senior Member
 
Dealbreaker74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Member Number: 697
Location: Monrovia, CA
Posts: 421
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Yeah man, that's using your noodle! And you didn't need to pull the pan down to figure it out...even better!
Dealbreaker74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2018, 05:07 AM   #179
Winchested
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Member Number: 9303
Posts: 41
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Still have far too much end clearance in that oil pump and you might not get good oil pressure once your engine is hot.
Winchested is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2018, 06:48 AM   #180
Ricky B
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Member Number: 5277
Location: So Cal
Posts: 29
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Yeah, that thought has crossed my mind a couple of times since....usually at 2:00 am. Will monitor carefully today after her initial start-up......
__________________
I support gay marriage. As long as both chicks are hot...
Ricky B is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:32 AM.