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Old 12-02-2016, 12:37 PM   #1
mpanzar
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Question ANOTHER S80 ballast resistor wiring question

Another ballast resistor wiring question. I recently had my 152 engine remanufactured through IH part america and I am preparing to install everything in my 1963 Scout 80. I am trying to make sense of the wealth of information on the forums regarding the ignition coil, ballast resistor and removal of the infamous resistance wire. Here is what I understand so far:

(1) remove the resistance wire
(2) install a ballast resistor
(3) install a new ignition coil
(4) as per the famous Mike mayben – “simply run a new ignition primary circuit”

the primary sources of information I am using are:

“smoking ballast resistor?” – [IH Parts America forum]
http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/showthread.php?t=930

“ballast resistor wiring s80 question” – [binder planet forum]
http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/i...uestion.96501/

I plan to follow Maybens setup as described in the “smoking ballast resistor?” post #3.

I have several questions about Maybens instructions posted below As well as the diagram in the “ballast resistor wiring s80 question”. I’ve never been good with electrical diagrams and logic so any help would be appreciated.

1) no "resistor wire" feed to the coil at all! Eliminate that wire from the entire harness but do not toss it, save for some other project if it's still good. Coil it up and put it away!

2) you need a ballast resistor of 0.8ohms nominal. I keep wells p/n al795 around here for this purpose. Tell the counter monkee that ya wanna resistor for a 1963>1971 dodge/plymouth/chrysler points ignition system, take your ohmmeter and check the sob on the counter! Again, that is 0.8ohms, not the same as the 1.8ohms unit we use for the sv points system! Big difference!

3) ya needa coil with a primary resistance of a nominal 3.0ohms. Again...that is different from the coils we use for the sv motors! They do not interchange (electrically speaking).


4) run a minimum 14 gauge wire from the ignition switch "on" terminal to one side of the resistor, I mount the resistor right on the coil bracket in some manner where it's convenient. Then run a pigtail from the "out" side of the resistor to the coil positive (+) terminal.

Question 01:
just to clarify, the “on” terminal is the highlighted one below?


5) connect your new distributor pigtail to the negative(-) side of the coil.

6) run a minimum 14 gauge wire from the starter solenoid/relay "r" terminal. That will provide full b+ to the ignition coil when the starter cranks the motor over. When ya release the switch to the "run" position, then current is applied to the ballast resistor which then feeds the coil at less than b+.


Question 02:
what does “full b+” mean?

Question 03:
where does this wire from item #6 run exactly? From “r” to (+) side of the ignition coil as shown with the red dotted line below?


Question 04:
is the yellow highlighted wire removed?

the wire runs I describe are exactly the same as I've outlined in the homebrew wiring spreadsheet I sent ya. Except, that system includes the additional "remote" starter solenoid mounted on the firewall, in that system the new relay provides the b+ feed to the coil in the "start" position.

Now...if you set the dwell to 74* for the delco distributor, the current draw through the primary side of the ignition system will be a nominal 3.1>3.4 amps, which is perfect for the 4popper motor and the points will live a long, happy life and the coil will exhibit perfect saturation!


Question 05:
what is the item highlighted in the diagram posted in the “ballast resistor wiring s80 question”? When I compare that diagram to the manual I don’t see that connection anywhere.


Any help and or additional information related to the topic will be appreciated because I am really trying to understand all of this stuff! Thanks in advance.
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Old 12-02-2016, 01:24 PM   #2
FDChappie
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Default Re: ANOTHER S80 ballast resistor wiring question

The best answer is to install a pertronix ignitor electronic ignition in your dizzy and never have to think about points, condensers or ballast resistors again. Just wire straight 12v to the coil. I did my Scout, travelette and jd tractor and never an issue for over 15 years.

On #5 that is a Ford solenoid used to fix the "hot no start" issue some IH's have.
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Old 12-02-2016, 05:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: ANOTHER S80 ballast resistor wiring question

The pertronix module isn't all that its cracked up to be. The first generation version of them fail quite easily. The 2nd and 3rd generations are better, but you pay for the improved design. There's nothing wrong with good ol' breaker points to get you up and enjoying your Scout. Its never a bad idea to have a basic understanding of how that system works and what components are involved, even if you do eventually upgrade to some form of electronic ignition. If you save all the old points crap in your glove box for an emergency and know how to hook it up, you can get yourself back under way in if your fancy module fails you while tromping around bfe miles from the nearest o-wrongleez.

Lets try and work through your questions:

1. Correct. 'I' stands for "ignition" on your key switch. It is energized in the on position. 'a' is "accessory". 's' is "start". 'b' is "battery" input (constant hot b+).

2. B+ refers to full battery voltage that is not reduced via a resistor device.

3./4. The diagram you reference shows that wire running from the solenoid 'r' terminal and terminating at a common bulk head junction with the 'I' feed wire that terminates on the key switch side of the ballast resistor. That seems wrong to me. Doing it as the diagram suggests would be engaging the resistor even during starter cranking. The idea behind that wire is to momentarily bypass the resistor to provide full b+ only while the starter is cranking the engine over. Once the engine has lit off and the starter is released, the resisted feed takes over and keeps the engine running until the key is switched off. There's more than one way to skin a cat here. The choice will be up to you. You can either run that wire all the way from solenoid 'r' terminal to your coil pos (+) terminal, or you can terminate it on the coil side of the ballast resistor, since you already have a wire running from the coil side of the resistor to the coil pos terminal. Six of one, half dozen of another. It May all come down to where your resistor is located in relation to your coil. Choose the way that keeps your engine loom the cleanest with the fewest number of redundant wire runs.

5. Ford style remote starter relay. This is a common modification folks choose perform to many vehicles that utilize the delco/remy (common to GM) starter system, including ihc light line vehicles.
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Old 12-05-2016, 09:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: ANOTHER S80 ballast resistor wiring question

Thanks for the explanations. While the pertronix seems like a great option, I am interested in keeping the points .

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoutboy74 View Post
3./4. The diagram you reference shows that wire running from the solenoid 'r' terminal and terminating at a common bulk head junction with the 'I' feed wire that terminates on the key switch side of the ballast resistor. That seems wrong to me. Doing it as the diagram suggests would be engaging the resistor even during starter cranking. The idea behind that wire is to momentarily bypass the resistor to provide full b+ only while the starter is cranking the engine over. Once the engine has lit off and the starter is released, the resisted feed takes over and keeps the engine running until the key is switched off. There's more than one way to skin a cat here. The choice will be up to you. You can either run that wire all the way from solenoid 'r' terminal to your coil pos (+) terminal, or you can terminate it on the coil side of the ballast resistor, since you already have a wire running from the coil side of the resistor to the coil pos terminal. Six of one, half dozen of another. It May all come down to where your resistor is located in relation to your coil. Choose the way that keeps your engine loom the cleanest with the fewest number of redundant wire runs.
It make sense that the yellow wire at the bulkhead should not pass through the resistance wire or ballast resistor... Unless the starter supplies more voltage to compensate for the added resistance?

Correct me if im wrong, when it come to using the points, listed are 3 working methods:

method 01 (stock):
resistance wire(1.8ohm) + ignition coil(1.5ohm)

method 02 (no resistance wire/almost stock):
ballast resistor(1.8ohm) + ignition coil(1.5ohm)

method 03 (Mike mayben):
ballast resistor(0.8ohm) + ignition coil(3ohm)

both method 01 and 02 I understand.

Regarding method 03, would the primary resistance of the 3ohm ignition coil create starting issues since its effectively putting the full b+ through a total resistance almost equivalent to methods 01 and 02? Again, this makes me question whether the full b+ should go directly to the coil or through the resistance chain.
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Old 12-05-2016, 10:45 AM   #5
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Default Re: ANOTHER S80 ballast resistor wiring question

The ignition protection requirements for an I-4 engine with points are not the same as for a v8 with points. In the case of a v8 with points, the reduced power feed is handled by either: (a) a 72 inch resistor wire, the length of providing 1.8 ohm resistance, or (b) a ceramic ballast resistor of 1.8 ohms interrupting an appropriate length run of standard wire. Either method will then terminate at a coil having an internal primary resistance of @ 1.5 ohms. A combined total resistance between 3.0 and 3.4 ohms will work for v8 points. So why not just use a 3.0 ohm resisted coil and be done? Most coils having that internal primary resistance clearly state on the exterior of the canister that an external resistor is required to protect the coil. So when you add in even a very low rated ballast resistor to that coil, you're now above the target resistance factor. This is why the 1.5 and 1.8 combination makes a good match for a v8 points system, but it is inadequate for a 4-banger.
An I-4 needs more resistance, hence mayben's statements in post 10 of that smoking resistor thread in which he mentions a coil having 3.0 ohms internal primary resistance, supplemented by a ballast of @ .8 ohms for a total between 3.8 and 4 ohms. As he further states, this isn't a one size fits all deal. Tailor your ignition system to your engine layout.
There is no voltage "step-up" from the resistor bypass feed coming from the solenoid terminal. It is b+ and nothing more. Depending on the condition of your wiring and junctions in between, it May be slightly less than what you would see measured across the battery terminals at rest. If this feed were to go through the ballast resistor before reaching the coil, it would be no different than the feed coming from the ignition switch, and thus the purpose of the momentary bypass would be defeated.
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Favorite hobby...Driving Salma Hayek in my Scout

Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVWR/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x11.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/8K# winch
Lemuel - '72 1210 LWB 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/RA D60 4.10 - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Mongo - '71 1210 LWB 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Krac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"

Last edited by Scoutboy74; 12-05-2016 at 11:01 AM..
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: ANOTHER S80 ballast resistor wiring question

That helps clear things up for me. Thanks.
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Old 11-23-2018, 09:55 AM   #7
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Default Re: ANOTHER S80 ballast resistor wiring question

Hello..i will suggest you to install a pertronix ignitor electronic ignition in your dizzy and never have to think about points, condensers or ballast resistors again. Just wire straight 12v to the coil. I did my Scout, travelette and jd tractor and never an issue for over 15 years.

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Last edited by DaveRodda; 12-06-2018 at 07:59 AM..
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