IH PARTS AMERICA
Click Here!

Go Back   IH PARTS AMERICA > Tech Forums > Gas Engine Tech
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Photo Gallery IH Store Home

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-16-2008, 10:16 AM   #16
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Once the rocker assembly has been removed from that motor, we can apply the "pre-oil" procedure described in that document I posted.

This pic shows an oil pump drive tool (ihon has those in stock) and the drill motor attached which I use. Ya gotta spin that oil pump with at least 1200rpm to make it squirt, and...the camshaft position in regards to the bearing spithole must be in proper alignment. Again...review that document so ya fully understand how critical that alignment is.

Here ya see one pressure gauge connected to the main gallery where the oem oil pressure ending unit is connected. That allows oil pressure at that point to be read when the drill motor is spinnin'.

The second pressure gauge is connected to an "adapter" I fabbed to allow oil pressure/flow to be measured at the critical feed point in the cylinder head simutaneously.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2008, 10:19 AM   #17
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Here's a closeup of the fabbed adapter for the oil pressure gauge.

It's simply a hard rubber, tapered tip that comes with a mity vac hand vacuum pump tool. It's perfect for doing this!

Ya will need to git creative and fab something similar if ya wanna be able to verify correct oil delivery at that point!
Attached Images
 
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2008, 10:29 AM   #18
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Ok...before we start in with repair, let's see how all that oil in the valve covers that accumulates gets back down into the sump for recycling!

Each head casting has a "drainback" hole at each end. That way, the head can be used on either side of an sv application.

And that hole mates with a similar passage in the block casting, and is sealed by a penetration in the head gasket.

The diameter of that return passage is calculated to allow a controlled return (by gravity) of oil pumped through the rocker assembly, to the oil pan sump.

If that hole becomes restricted because of sludge/carbon, accumulated valve cover gasket debris, rtv/gasket sealers, etc., then oil will not drain out of the rocker chamber under the valve covers! The result?? Much "windage" in that area, aeration of the oil, inability of the upper end of the engine to breathe through the pcv system, valve cover/bolt oil leakage, etc. And in the case of the Scout II oil pan system, a "shortage" of oil being returned to the sump for pickup by the oil pump at higher engine rpm.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2008, 12:15 PM   #19
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Now let's clean out the rocker shaft...one more reason why tha bitch May not be oilin'!

In each end of the shaft, there is a small cup plug inserted. These plugs keep the rocker shaft full of oil whenever the engine is running, that in turn supplies oil to the rocker bushings, push rod tips, valve tips.

But in these old poorly maintained crapball motors, those rocker shafts are gonna be badly plugged up with sludge and carbon accumulation from overheated oil. If those eight small holes can't allow oil flow, then the rocker will actually momentarily seize to the shaft. Or...a valve will seize in it's guide (most common) and hang partially open.

The stuck valve then allows the push rod to jump out of it's proper position, or sometimes the push rod is whacked by the rocker and simply breaks into a couplea pieces and falls down into the lifter chamber. When that happens, the affected cylinder goes dead. Many valve jobs and head gasket jobs have been done for this simple root cause! And doin' a head gasket replacement will do nothing to correct a plugged rocker assembly!

This shot shows a sheetmetal screw having been driven into the cup. Then a small slide hammer witha "puller" has been rigged on the head of the screw and then the cup plug is extracted. Do the same on the other end!

Once both plugs are removed, then the interior of the shaft can be inspected witha light. You will be shocked at what ya see in there!

I clean these shafts either by using solvent and an engine oil gallery brush set, or a 20 gauge shotgun cleaning kit, including the bronze bore brush followed by the swap. Also individually clean each oil spit hole. This shaft must be sterile before installing the new plugs.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2008, 12:27 PM   #20
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Here's a shot of the grungee cup plugs extracted.

The replacement dorman cup plug is also shown, it's a 9/16" callout and should not be substituted for some dam metric "equivalent" plug!!!

The plugs are the "shallow" design and not exactly the same as the oem. That does not matter, what does matter is the nominal diameter. These plugs are designed to be a fairly "tight" interference fit inside the shaft hole, use no sealer when installing these plugs!
Attached Images
 
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2008, 12:31 PM   #21
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Using a suitable drift, knock the fresh plug into position. It should be driven in so that trailing edge of the cup is just past that first rocker stand hole...no deeper. If ya don't drive it deep enough, then the hold down bolt won't go through the hole.

Repeat this process for the other end.

That tool I use is perfect for seating these plugs, it'sa push rod from a '62 corvair flat sixbanger!
Attached Images
 
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2008, 03:55 PM   #22
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Now let's reassemble the rocker shaft.

Here we see the correct orientation of the rocker stands for the nine stand assembly. The set of stands I've selected here is a mix of the three different part numbers, so you can see that the foot of each stand which mates with the head has a slightly different shape. There are two points here that are critical...

1) the third position from the left hand end must have the "oiler" stand installed in correct orientation!

2) the third position from the right hand end must have a stand installed that has the "cutaway" foot, so that it will not interfere with the cylinder head bolt head.

The type of stand installed in the other seven positions is not critical as long as they are clean!
Attached Images
 
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2008, 04:01 PM   #23
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Here I've turned the critical stands upside down so ya can see the shape of the foot.. Notice that the oil hole on #3 from the left has been cleaned out.

The spacers are also seen in their approximate position. And the oil spit hole for each rocker bushing May be seen in it' proper orientation which is up.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2008, 04:05 PM   #24
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

One last point to verify so we don't have to tear this apart and redo it later.

The shaft itself must be oriented with the end that has the two stand holes closest together to the left. This shaft is not symmetrical and May not be swapped end for end, nor can it be turned upside down!
Attached Images
 
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2008, 06:24 PM   #25
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Ya gotta clean and inspect each rocker arm for the following:

...condition of the ball end which engages the push rod socket.

...condition of the pad end which engages the valve tip.

...cleanliness of the lube holes at both the inserted rocker tips.

...condition/size of the bronze rocker bushing insert.

Those tiny spit holes at each tip of the rocker must be sterile! Very important. If they cannot drip oil onto the push rod socket or the valve tip, extreme, rapid wear will occur at those points. As the wear increases, the lifter can no longer compensate for varying valve assembly geometry and lifter noise will begin and continue, it will not go away due to this wear!

Once the engine is running, you must observe oil drool from all of those rocker tip interfaces, it it does not drool, then ya gotta correct that!
Attached Images
 
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2008, 06:30 PM   #26
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Here's what I use for engine and rotating assembly lubrication upon re-installation. Same product is used for "cam lube".

This stuff goes on bearing journals and inserts, any thrust surface, etc.

For actual hard surface contact points such as push rod tips, rocker tips, etc. I normally use a moly-fill grease such as used for wheel bearings, not the old fashioned fibrous stuff, but the more modern stuff marketed for disc brake hub bearings.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2008, 06:40 PM   #27
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

And here is the completely re-assembled rocker shaft. The oem nylon insert bolts and the thick, hardened washers are in place in each rocker stand.

Once again, verify that the third rocker stand from the left is the oiler stand...and the third rocker stand from the right is the "cutaway foot" stand.

All that is left is to put a dab of sealant on the tip of each bolt before lowering the assembly against the head. I use either hylomar (preferred) or permatex #2 as the sealant, that must be done for the four bolts which penetrate the intake ports in the head. If ya don't do that, ya will have vacuum leaks and oil smoke. Go ahead and seal all the threads, it won't hurt anything. Do not allow sealant to get anywhere near the oiler hole though!!!

When the bolts are tightened the final time, use no more than 12ft.lbs. Of torque or you will crush the stands or crack 'em, resulting in oil bypass. The nylon inserts and sealant will keep the bolts in place just fine, that is why they are there!
Attached Images
 
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2008, 07:36 AM   #28
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Now let's look at some of the crap that the po and hiz/her "mechanic" will do to scruu up these thangs!

Ya gotta look real close at this pic. Someone has used a belt sander on the bottom of each rocker stand to remove material! But instead of trying to make 'em all the same "height", each one is different and most were ground off at an angle to the shaft center line!

The one on the left is the worst, ya can see daylight under the straightedge. Think what this does to the rocker shaft when tightened down! And this one had two rocker stands cracked through the mounting bolt holes so oil would just run out the stand and not "load" the hollow shaft.

In the case of the assembly this shot was taken from, the oiler stand was way short...so all the oil was spillin' out the bottom, none was reaching the rockers themselves or the rocker tips!
Attached Images
 
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2008, 08:01 AM   #29
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Part of this same botchinated rocker assembly...someone had punched out the valve tips (they are a press fit and then staked), and put washers under each one to extend the tip! Idea was to "pre-load" the hydraulic lifter to make the rattle go away!

But they used a different thickness washer under each tip! And all the stands were ground off a different amount and none of 'em were "square"!

This is very similar to what tren and Chad long found when they cranked that fresh-built 266 that was "squeaking" when they cranked it the first time.

All of this crap is what resulted when someone tried to "fix" lifter knock, in fact...the sonjamotor I took these parts from had three sets of new lifters installed to "fix" the noise. The lifter rattle came and went over time (nearly 10,000 miles!!!) as the cam bearings gradually disintegrated, this did not happen within a very short time period of operation.

The cam in this engine was not "flat", and all measures out to spec and will either be re-used...or turned in for a re-grind core...owner's choice.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690

Last edited by Michael Mayben; 09-20-2008 at 08:18 AM..
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 09:36 AM   #30
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 72
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

We still have more information to add to this thread, especially regarding rocker arm assembly "variations" and ways to mix and match components if need be.

But here's a link that describes a tool I just finished for driving the oil pump either for use in diagnosing rocker assembly lubrication issues or cam bearing failure:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com...ve-system.html

Just a more advanced method of using the basic "cut down screw driver" oil pump drive tool.
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690

Last edited by Michael Mayben; 11-16-2009 at 07:49 PM..
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:45 AM.