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Old 04-02-2008, 08:16 AM   #1
Michael Mayben
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Default Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

Let's use this thread to discuss anything related to the Holley 41xx series carbs (4150, 4150g, 4160, 4160g etc.) that were oem on IH products back in the day.
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:47 AM   #2
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Default Re: Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

For identification purposes, here's a shot of a "typical" 41xx series 4v (four barrel/square bore) Holley modular carb. These units have been in production and used on countless vehicles oem since around 1954.

There are two distinct models, the 4150 series uses a metering block for the secondary system, and is available in either an oem-type sidehung float bowl arrangement, or in a centerhung float arrangement.

The 4160 series is considered a "cost reduction" version (but not reduced performance!), those units have a metering "plate" used in the secondary system, resulting in a shorter overall length package. The 4160 is also available in both side hung and centerhung float bowl versions.

This unit is a typical 4150 manual choke version, with sidehung float bowls.
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

This 4150 is a "hot air" choke variation, one of the first types of "automatic" choke systems.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

This one of the most popular aftermarket replacement 4v carbs of all times, the list 80457s, a 4160 with electric choke out of the box. This one has been considerably modded for optimization when used with an rpt aluminum intake manifold (squarebore variation).
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

Yet another 4v modular example...this one is a 670 cfm "street avenger" package carb with the standard issue bells and whistles from Holley. A 4150 with electric choke, and adjustable vacuum secondary actuation system. Dual inlet, centerhung fuel bowls (not a so-called "double pumper"!).

This carb is totally unsuitable for any IH sv application, way too fat in internal calibration, and the centerhung float bowl on the primary side prevents installation due to interference with the thermostat housing. However, it might be suitable onna 392 that has been heavily performance modded (including some major port work on the heads) and has had the thermostat housing "relocated"!

I've posted this pic primarily for identification purposes, not to recommend it's use on any IH engine...perfect for a hotted up chryfordrolet (or rambler v8 warmed up motor).
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:16 PM   #6
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Default Re: Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

Yet another variation on the 4160 theme...this is a 750cfm, centerhung float bowl/dual inlet, with electric choke. This one has also been converted to an adjustable secondary actuation system. And again...not suitable for any IH sv motor unless heavily modded!

This carb has just been built for a 440 dodge wedgemotor that is going into an sii mudracer. It'll twist a set of d60 axles out of a dodge pickup, through a "built" tf 727 that will marry the dodge tranny case to a sii output shaft/transfer case adapter so that a d20 tc can be utilized, a low bucks but very effective approach.

The carb will sit onna 1" phenolic spacer with an interchangeable divider block, that way it can be used on either an oem-type 4 hole (squarebore) manifold, or onna high rise "open plenum" squarebore manifold.
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Old 04-04-2008, 01:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

Holley "aftermarket" carbs (all new units manufactured/sold since about 1990) carry only a Holley "list" number stamped into the driver side front of the choke air horn. Sometimes the list number is the same as the Holley part number for the particular unit, sometimes not. The list number again, is the important method of identification.

This one is a 750cfm centerhung (dual feed). However, from the base list number, it has had added an internal vacuum source electric choke kit, along with a quick change top for the vacuum secondary actuator, so it's not a "true" version of what the list number crosses to! Very common situation regarding aftermarket carburetors!
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Old 08-29-2008, 09:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

Mike, I've noticed sumthin' lately with my 4150. It's not a big deal at this point unless it gets noticeably worse. I ain't bitchin' 'bout nuthin, just so we're clear. Overall, I'm still happier 'n a hawg in sheeat with the way the engine is running. Snappy throttle response, smooth idle, hard acceleration...it's all there in spades. But...if the truck sits for a week or so in between starts, it will take roughly 3 full stabs of the gas pedal before it gets unough gas in the chamber to fire up and stay running. If it's only a couple/few days between starts, then a single pump is sufficient. Does this sound like a real slow internal fuel leak to you? This is more for an fyi than anything else. I ain't about tuh pull that carb back off jes fer this one itty bitty imperfeckshun. But in 2-3 years when it's time fer anuther overhaul...thanks bubba! Yer a gud ayg I don't care whut them other mean bubbas been sayin' about ya!
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Lemuel - '73 1210 Reg Cab 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/4.09 FA25 & 4.10 RA16/6800# GVW - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Organ Donor - '72 1210 Reg Cab 2WD - seized 392/TF727/7500# GVW - "Use my body to keep you alive!"
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Old 08-29-2008, 09:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

Speakin' o' aygs...ain't herd from sonja the ayg lady who owns that green sii out back in quite awhile. Bet there's at least a dozen emtees in that front seat wait'n for her to fill with somma them pollo de diablo easteraygs she raises. Last I herd, her boy wuz runnin' an ayg route to make some play money, I'm real proud of him, most kidz that age would now rather rip off old ladeez at tha mall.

Yep...yore still lernin' carbshit real guud! Could be fuel leakdown, that's to be expected over say a two week sat (actually fuel is evaporating through the bowl vents), but not three days.

Next time ya let tha bitch set... Do not touch tha loud pedal first. Pop the rock strainer off the top and look straight down tha gullet. Only then whack tha throttle wide open and release one time while ya watch the shooter nozzles shoot. I wanna see a strong, healthy fullstroke shoot! No wimpy fuel with gulps of air included.

If ya ain't gotta full shoot (don't give it no viagra dose beforehand), then the problema is in the accel pump guapo. The accel pump circuit ain't holdin' a load. Why? We'll worry about that when ya do tha test and report back! Ain't no sense in chasin' snakes if they ain't struck!
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

Otay, I'll see if I can't let him sit idle fer a'nother week and do yer test. Might be tuff, though. I've kinda talked myself into a challenge on the bb. Gotta see if the 392 can motervate hooty from a dead stop to 60 mph in less than 10 ticks. Gunna mount my gps to the winnder, zoom my camra in on the display, and make like parnelli jones. If successful, I'll post the video clip up on utoob as proof positive. This is all in response to someone wondering what the 0-60 time was on a stock sii with 345 & 4spd. My initial guess was 7-8 secs, but according to published data, said Scout would also have to have a rocket shuved up it's azz to do it in that time frame. 13-14 seconds is more like it. I know these thangs are bricks, but that seems dam slow to me, like morgan freeman drivin' miss daisy slow. So I'm thinkin' sub 10 seconds in hooty with my engine/tranny combo minus traveltop might (key word there) be doable.
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Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVW/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Powr-lok RA/33g Fuel
Lemuel - '73 1210 Reg Cab 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/4.09 FA25 & 4.10 RA16/6800# GVW - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Organ Donor - '72 1210 Reg Cab 2WD - seized 392/TF727/7500# GVW - "Use my body to keep you alive!"
Mongo - '71 1210 Reg Cab 2WD - 345/TF727/4.10 RA17/6100# GVW - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:33 AM   #11
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Default Re: Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

Generally, I have found that pressing the accelerator pedal to the floor more than once is not that helpful. Though, I have done it on vehicles that have set for a few weeks -- more out of losing patience.

If the fuel is not in the bowl, the engine is not going to run until some fuel gets there.

Off topic:

btw, I am the person on the bb that said your Scout / 392 will not go 0 - 60 in less than 10 seconds.

Yes , removing weight (travel top) will help acceleration. But, then, it is not at the "stock weight".

If you put $4000. - $6000. Into the 392 so that it will rev to 5000 - 6000 rpm, you have a better chance.

Personally, I do not want you to break "something" -- or hurt somebody trying to do it.
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

I guess that's where our experiences differ. One pump, a few cranks, the engine fires, but dies right away. I guess I could just keep cranking the starter, but for how long? So I repeat the process a second time, same result. Third time proved to be the charm with minimal starter cranking between the three attempts.

It May very well not be able to hit 60 in 10 or less. It seems like a relatively long time as I watch the second hand on my watch tick and replay the most recent drives in my head. It just doesn't seem like it could possibly take 12 seconds or more to hit 60, but I could be very wrong, and I'd be perfectly okay with that.

That makes two of us. None of the above would be worth it to prove some meaningless point. I'm confident I can find some lonely, straight, flat stretch of highway with great visibility in both directions. As far as breaking something, I wouldn't be revving the engine up to stall speed with one foot on the brake and then dumping it. I'd simply start out in gear at idle and nut it, something I've done a number of times with no ill effects. The tranny upshifts at about 3100 under hard accel, which is well within safe operating range. 60 mph would also be close to 3k rpm in drive.
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Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVW/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Powr-lok RA/33g Fuel
Lemuel - '73 1210 Reg Cab 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/4.09 FA25 & 4.10 RA16/6800# GVW - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Organ Donor - '72 1210 Reg Cab 2WD - seized 392/TF727/7500# GVW - "Use my body to keep you alive!"
Mongo - '71 1210 Reg Cab 2WD - 345/TF727/4.10 RA17/6100# GVW - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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Old 08-30-2008, 08:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

You May get to 10 -- I would "guess" 10.5 - 11. You are "moving" 4500 lbs or so.

I am "stepping" into dangerous territory -- michael's.

Based on the last post, it seems to me you have gas in the carb and it could be something in the accelerator pump system as michael states.

Another bit of information that might help michael is the position of the choke plate when the choke is activated.

Vehicle cold -- take off the air cleaner; press the accelerator pedal to the floor once. Then, get out and check the postion of the choke plate -- how much "opening" between the edge and airhorn. I do not know what it should be.

Once it starts, does it idle at 1500 rpm on the fast idle cam?

Now that I think about it:

what yours (startup) does is what sometimes happens when I take my sf bay area choke setting to the desert in the winter -- 65 degrees in the garage / outside to 35 - 40 degrees outside. If I "catch it" quick enough (give it a little throttle), I can keep it running.

But, wait for michael's input..... I'm an amateur -- especially on holleys.
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Old 08-30-2008, 08:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

That book I tossed out a few weeks back that was compiled Scout road tests would be sumthin' ya could put the bullshit "road test" numbers inna spreadsheet and compare! Out of all those tests, there might be two that were really objective, the rest were smokeblow to sell ad space for the next issues!

Next time I'm really bored, I'll throw somma that fluff up here in tha "chitchat" forum. Comparative data would be curb weight as tested, engine size, tranny, and 0-60 time.

I will say though, hooty's the first pos sii I ever been in that would chirp bigazz tires inna 1>2 shift with a 727! I'd already told trev not to expect much improvement over the former motor...but I was wrong! The old hooty 392 peekup must been onena them "special" motors from tha factory...ya know, 285 net hp and gits 22mpg!
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Old 08-30-2008, 08:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Holley 41XX Modular Series Carb Stuff

Ooh Robert, you've got me tantalizingly close to the goal at 10.5or 11! What's a half-second between drinkin' buddies?
It very well could be an accel pump issue. Odd though that it doesn't show itself while the engine is under load. Perhaps that's to be expected. Like you and Mike have stated, the visual test is the only way to end the conjecture.
As far as the choke plate gap, I haven't measured it, but I set the thermal housing control to the middle or 12 o'clock position, as instructed by the man hisseff.
Normally, when it starts it runs smoothly at about 1600 rpms on the fast idle which is within spec for that carb.
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Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVW/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Powr-lok RA/33g Fuel
Lemuel - '73 1210 Reg Cab 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/4.09 FA25 & 4.10 RA16/6800# GVW - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Organ Donor - '72 1210 Reg Cab 2WD - seized 392/TF727/7500# GVW - "Use my body to keep you alive!"
Mongo - '71 1210 Reg Cab 2WD - 345/TF727/4.10 RA17/6100# GVW - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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