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Old 02-03-2018, 09:49 PM   #1
DKindley
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Default 727 upshift mystery

Hello Gentlemen its been a while since I posted up. You guys were such a big help that my scout has been running great for a while. New issue though I'm hoping someone can help me with. So for a little back story my teenage boys have been taking turns daily driving my 75 SII to school for the last couple years. Suddenly they came home saying the scout is making noises. Long story short, they were doing nuetral drops to spin the tires!! I know right. We tore it apart and the sprag was toast and the cluthes were all shot. We completely rebuilt it with new bolt in sprag, and a shift kit. Put it back together and test drove it.
Problem is now it will stay in 1st gear when the throttle is applied. If i let off the throttle and coast it will shift into 2nd and direct. But once its in 2 and 3 it slips. Any ideas? I'm suspecting the governor circuit, but it does go into 2-3 when coasting?
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Old 02-03-2018, 10:01 PM   #2
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Just for clarification, I've tried the following:

Warmed it up, checked fluid idling in nuetral- at full mark
Adjusted the kickdown linkage- 1/4" gap at idle, 1/16" left on
shaft at WOT per MR. Mayben's previous posts
I used the Munroe book by the letter when I rebuilt it, so I know the bands are correct. Torqued to 72 in lbs, backed off 2 1/4 turns on the kickdown band and 2 turns on the low/reverse band
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Seems like Iíve stumped everyone? Hereís my plan of attack, let me know if itís a good one. Iíll hook up a gauge to the governor port and test pressure. If that checks out Iím going to pull the valve body and check all the valves to see if one is sticking. I feel like I just donít have enough line pressure to lock the clutches in 2 and 3? If anyone has a better suggestion please let me know.
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Old 02-05-2018, 06:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Did you bench test with compressed air applied to the assorted ports to make sure servos and clutches were applying/releasing properly?
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Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVWR/12K# winch
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Old 02-05-2018, 07:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Scoutboy, thanks for replying I thought maybe I scared everyone off. Yes I did air check the clutch packs and I could hear them popping closed. The servo ports moved the servos also. I was re-reading the shift kit instructions and I did fail to replace an oem spring with a kit spring. I seriously doubt thatís the issue though.
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Old 02-05-2018, 07:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Not skerrd. Just didn't see this until a little bit ago. I don't think there are that many active members who've had their hands inside a slushbox lurking about here either. Will this trans downshift from direct to 2nd when you goose it at say 40 mph? Does manually bumping the lever up from 1-2-D as you accelerate make any difference?
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Favorite hobby...Driving Salma Hayek in my Scout

Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVWR/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x11.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/8K# winch
Lemuel - '72 1210 LWB 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/RA D60 4.10 - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Mongo - '71 1210 LWB 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Krac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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Old 02-05-2018, 08:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Iím sure your right, Iíve only been into mine out of necessity. Well it wonít upshift at any speed if itís under throttle. Goofy thing is if I let off the throttle and coast, it will shift into 2 then 3. But if I give it throttle it slips or kicks back down into 1 depending on speed and amount of throttle.
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Old 02-05-2018, 09:30 PM   #8
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Almost sounds like too much line pressure.
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Favorite hobby...Driving Salma Hayek in my Scout

Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVWR/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x11.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/8K# winch
Lemuel - '72 1210 LWB 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/RA D60 4.10 - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Mongo - '71 1210 LWB 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Krac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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Old 02-05-2018, 09:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

I was thinking that at first but I talked myself out of that because it slips once it gets into 2/3. I guess I wonít know until I get a gauge hooked up?
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Old 02-05-2018, 09:55 PM   #10
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Do you think too much line pressure would prevent the clutches from holding? Kind of seems bass akwards to me but I may be over thinking this
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

I wouldn't think so either. You've got some pressure readings to take. Don't just do the governor. Take line pressure as well as front and rear servo readings. Refer to the Munroe book as the procedure is well explained there. My WAG is something went wrong with your VB assembly.
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Favorite hobby...Driving Salma Hayek in my Scout

Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVWR/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x11.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/8K# winch
Lemuel - '72 1210 LWB 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/RA D60 4.10 - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Mongo - '71 1210 LWB 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Krac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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Old 02-06-2018, 01:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Ya it seems most likely that I jacked up the vb somewhere along the way. I had a nightmare last night that the input shaft sealing rings may have broken when I air checked the clutches. Iím thinking that would also cause 1st to slip and I didnít hear an air leak when I was checking them. Thanks for the input and letting me bounce ideas off ya
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Old 02-06-2018, 05:53 PM   #13
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Sure. Good luck with it and keep us posted about any major developments.
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Favorite hobby...Driving Salma Hayek in my Scout

Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVWR/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x11.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/8K# winch
Lemuel - '72 1210 LWB 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/RA D60 4.10 - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Mongo - '71 1210 LWB 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Krac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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Old 02-06-2018, 07:20 PM   #14
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

So I hooked up two gauges tonight. One to line pressure and one to the front servo port. Oh boy, here we go. Line pressure read 90psi at first! Did drop down to a steady 75 but thatís still way over the 54-60 the book shows. Also I didnít get any pressure from the front servo port? I stopped there for tonight because thatís clearly no bueno. The shift kit might explain the higher pressure but not the front servo not pressurizing. Has anyone seen this situation before after installing a shift kit?
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Old 02-06-2018, 07:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

That LP reading was at idle right? In what gear selector position? Were you driving or did you have the rear wheels off the ground so you could put the thing in gear for the front servo reading?
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Favorite hobby...Driving Salma Hayek in my Scout

Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500/8800# GVWR/12K# winch
Hooty - '74 SII 4x4 - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x11.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/8K# winch
Lemuel - '72 1210 LWB 4x4 CS - 304/TF727/NP205/RA D60 4.10 - "Pull Lemuel, pull!"
Mongo - '71 1210 LWB 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Krac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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