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Old 11-09-2018, 06:41 PM   #46
Richard
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Default Re: Proper Clutch Identification

almost done!!!!! Damn- that T-19 and D 20 was heavy!!!

I am reading that the recommended gear oil is :

Use GL-4 or GL-3 ONLY. Must NOT use GL-5 or GL-4/GL-5 with bronze synchromesh manual transmission. Manual synchromeshed transmission oil is included here for information only

Can I get a "reasoning" for not using GL-5? I am reading where GL-5 is a more durable gear oil. No? will GL-5 destroy the synchos, or cause early wear?

Thanks>
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Old 11-09-2018, 06:54 PM   #47
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Default Re: Proper Clutch Identification

The GL5 most likely has sulfur in it which attacks the bronze parts.The T19 weighs in at 160 and the Dana 20 at around 60. I run Redline MT 90 in both. If you have any leaks they will tend to leak more because it's thinner. Nowadays it doesn't cost much more than the standard 90 weight.
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1975 Scout II healthy 258, Wide T19 , 4:1 D300 3:54s,
1972 Real clean stock Scout II P/S, P/B, 345, T18, 3:73s
1969 Mach I. Balanced ported 351W, 650 double pumper, Super T10, Detroit locker with 4.11s. Lowered with racing springs, bars, Konis etc.
(Don't worry about getting arrested when I drive the Scouts).
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Old 11-11-2018, 08:18 AM   #48
Richard
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Default Re: Proper Clutch Identification

Ok, the good:

got everything in lined up, bolted down. Started the 196 with clutch pedal full depressed (good sign), figured out how the 4 spd shifter went into the top and "presto", good to go. everything shifts just fine (had to get used to 4 speeds vs. the 3 speed that I had for 15 yrs). Transfer case engages just fine, all is good.

the bad:

I have what sounds like either throw out bearing failure, or end of snout "chatter". The T/O bearing is well greased (zirk fitting) and when I had it out when changing trannies, it seemed fine. There was no looseness or wobble at all.

The sound I get is not when standing still when engaging any of the 4 speeds, it only shows up when moving. when shifting from one gear to the next, I hear this "rattle", then it goes away when clutch is released.

Is it possible that the T/O bearing/collar is too short for the snout? since I have the console cover off when driving, I can really hear it, but I will confess that I recall hearing the same noise when I had to 3 spd in, only I didn't think about it (and the console cover was on, so not as noticeable).

When I had the T/O bearing/sleeve off to clean, it had literally no wear on "contact to fork" points/locations, and the fork itself appeared just as nice.

Bottom line: I am guessing that if is a collar that is too short, at some point, will it fall off the end of the snout? I will leave it alone for right now - the Scout drives just fine.

Random thought: since the snout and sleeve are stationary, someone could invent/design a "bolt on" sleeve (maybe 1.5") to attach to the end of the actual sleeve to eliminate this issue. I would hate to have to remove this 220 lb. dead weight again! It was painful the first time around.

I did not think to measure the T/O bearing/sleeve when it was out since it was the original one. I will take pix and post later today.

Damn! working on this sled is some real good mental therapy!
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Old 11-11-2018, 08:30 AM   #49
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Default Re: Proper Clutch Identification

well, and afterthought:

to eliminate the obvious, what is the longest T/O bearing/sleeve available? I will measure mine and post.
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Old 11-11-2018, 09:04 AM   #50
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Default Re: Proper Clutch Identification

See if you have an access cover on the bottom of the bell housing. Both my 75 with a 258, and my 72 with a 345 have them. After taking it off you should be able to see what is going on with the throw out bearing, and just about everything else in there. Also make sure that the pressure plate is fully seated against the flywheel. Sounds like it has something to do with your clutch linkage, pressure plate, or pilot bearing. Also make sure you transmission and motor mounts are in decent shape. Have someone push the clutch pedal in and out while you are underneath observing things (you can have the engine running, but block the wheels, make sure it's someone you trust, and don't put it in gear).
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1975 Scout II healthy 258, Wide T19 , 4:1 D300 3:54s,
1972 Real clean stock Scout II P/S, P/B, 345, T18, 3:73s
1969 Mach I. Balanced ported 351W, 650 double pumper, Super T10, Detroit locker with 4.11s. Lowered with racing springs, bars, Konis etc.
(Don't worry about getting arrested when I drive the Scouts).

Last edited by Hondo; 11-11-2018 at 07:00 PM..
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Old 11-11-2018, 07:58 PM   #51
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Default Re: Proper Clutch Identification

Well:

attached are pix of the sleeve & T/O bearing.

The two attached pix show the clutch sleeve in fully depressed view and fully released. The yellow mark shows how long the “snout” is when clutch peddle is fully depressed. Since the snout is 3.5 inches, I marked (blue mark) where it is when clutch is fully pressed in. Also, the mark in red shows the amount of travel (clutch released/clutch fully depressed) It’s about ˝ travel. (Am I making sense?) The other pix shows sleeve fully released and where the snout would measure to (blue).

I doubt that the sleeve will fall off (there’s at least 1.5 inches of sleeve on the snout when fully depressed), and as I mentioned before, the noise (rattle) was something I would hear with the 3 speed. I just never paid it any attention. Based on previous comments, I thought that there might be only about ˝ inch or less of sleeve to play with. So, I am going to leave it alone. Unless it is a safety issue that I need to address.

Also, if you look at the clutch fork “tangs” (where the fork links to sleeve), they seem in very good shape. Almost not wear. I will let it go.

(that, and I‘m getting too old to be doing this kind of stuff! HAH!)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg InkedSleeve fully released.jpg (276.9 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg InkedClutch Sleeve full depressed showing 3.5 inches.jpg (345.3 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg Sleeve & TO bearing.jpg (37.3 KB, 57 views)
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:00 AM   #52
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Default Re: Proper Clutch Identification

Richard
Did you ever find the problem? I'm having the same problem myself? From your last picture I have the exact same set-up. What vehicle is that out of? What style clutch is yours?
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Old 11-19-2018, 04:59 PM   #53
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Default Re: Proper Clutch Identification

Hi there. I have a 1977 SII with a 196 4cyl. I changed from a 3 sp stick/chain transfer case to the T-19 and D20 transfer case.

the problem was/is that the snout the sleeve/T-O bearing ride on is a bit short, so you will get a bit of "rattle" when depressing the clutch pedal. Other than that, it works just fine.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:18 AM   #54
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Default Re: Proper Clutch Identification

This might be a bit off subject, I think:

trying to determine how to "adjust" the clutch pedal play. I have about an inch and a half of play on my clutch pedal (clutch pedal fully free and I can wiggle it up and down about that much). I see both ends of the clutch rod where the threads are but didn't want to mess with it until I got some feedback.

Clutch engages just fine, when pedal is fully to the floor, clutch engages about half way up from from fully depressed to fully free (along with the 1 1/2 of play). Was wondering of this is normal, or not.

Thanks,
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:05 PM   #55
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Default Re: Proper Clutch Identification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
This might be a bit off subject, I think:

trying to determine how to "adjust" the clutch pedal play. I have about an inch and a half of play on my clutch pedal (clutch pedal fully free and I can wiggle it up and down about that much). I see both ends of the clutch rod where the threads are but didn't want to mess with it until I got some feedback.

Clutch engages just fine, when pedal is fully to the floor, clutch engages about half way up from from fully depressed to fully free (along with the 1 1/2 of play). Was wondering of this is normal, or not.

Thanks,
Normal end play on the clutch pedal is 1/2" +_ 1/8"
Excess end play is probably worn linkage and/or the throw out bearing collar.
The ideal time to replace the collar is with the clutch job.
For now, if the ears are still good on your existing collar, you might be able to turn the connecting rod with acts like a turnbuckle, (loosen jamb nuts first) then take out some play.
Some end play is nessesary so as not to wear out the bearing by riding it with linkage that is too tight, or somebodies foot.
As long as you have the clutch inspection cover off, shoot some grease in the TO bearing zerk fitting.
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Last edited by Tiny Yokum; 06-03-2019 at 06:37 PM..
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:11 PM   #56
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Default Re: Proper Clutch Identification

Appreciate the quick reply. Will resolve this weekend.

Thanks,
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