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Old 07-29-2017, 12:55 PM   #106
428street
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

What is the proper procedure to test the resistance to the coil with an Ohm meter...straight across the two terminals or from the 12v pole to ground on the truck?
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:06 PM   #107
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

That's decent progress. You're getting there. For measuring resistance, your meter needs to be set to measure resistance in ohms on the lowest setting. For best results, you want it to be about 70 degrees out when you do this. Just not too hot and not too cold. Remove the electric wires from both the POS and NEG terminals and run your meter probes across the terminals. That will give you your primary resistance. It should be @ 1.5 ohms. For the secondary resistance, you probe between the POS terminal and the center high tension terminal. The setting will need to be much higher as the number will be between 6 and 15 thousand ohms. The engine is starting and running, so this will just be mainly for grins and giggles, although it is good to confirm your coil primary resistance, along with the resistance of your ballast resistor if you have one. There's been so much water under the bridge, I can't recall if we discussed your ballast or not. Setting the A/F is a science. You've got a vacuum gauge that you connect to a manifold source. You've got a tachometer. You've got a screwdriver and you've got ears to hear with. Those are really all the tools you need to do the job.
What you do to one side, you do to the other. Keep them the same. Adjust in small increments. 1/8th and 1/4 turns as you get close. Highest steady reading on the vacuum gauge with a sewing machine smooth idle, not loping or chugging.
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Old 08-02-2017, 04:57 AM   #108
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

I haven't died just busy and it's hot out...going to tackle everything this weekend...
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:02 AM   #109
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

Copy. Damn hot here too.
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Old 08-06-2017, 08:49 AM   #110
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

Quick update.

I think I made more progress then not but I did brake something unfortunately. I stripped one of the screws on the dizzy plate for the points. The left hand side screw not the adjustment screw. Not sure the steps to fix that but I hope I don't have to take the whole thing off. Either way its done and I have to fix it.

Dwell was set at 28 and it stays true.

Timing is about 10-11 degrees advance.

Vacuum is 15, I know 20 was the number I was shooting for not sure what to do about that.

Adjusted curb/idle screw

adjusted both air/gas mixture screws

adjusted float level in carb but I have a question on this and it's stupid. Wasn't sure if I needed to take the view screw to check the float/gas level out while the truck was running or not. I could see reasons for both.

Biggest issue I have outside of the stripped screw in the dizzy plate is the accelerator pedal gets "stuck" at a high RPM when I come to a stop or around a corner. I did check and I saw the two heater hoses where on top of the accelerator pedal rod so I need to re-route that so that the rod is free of the two hoses on top of it.

Thats all I have for now. More later. That is the RDV.
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Old 08-06-2017, 09:08 AM   #111
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

Bummer on the screw. Maybe go the next size up with a self-tapping screw? I don't know if that's even an option. Just the first spitball that comes to mind.
What's your hot idle speed? Did you have the vac gauge hooked up while you were making adjustments? Did you see the adjustments effecting the reading in any way? Did you count how many full and partial turns out from gentle seat contact the mixture screws are? Are both sides the same?
Yes, the sight plug should come out for checking float level with engine at idle. May not want to have the engine super hot for this. Just warm enough to idle on its own with choke fully opened. Place a catch rag under the hole in case the fuel level is too high and comes dribbling/gushing out. You want the level to be just at or slightly below the bottom of the hole where a slight rock of the vehicle will create a little slosh.
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Old 08-06-2017, 03:39 PM   #112
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

I'll take the screw out tomorrow and see what I can come up with.

I assume the screw is important enough to have to fix it one way or another correct?

In the future, how tight do those screws need to be. It appears to just hold the points in place. Also, should there be any type of washer on either screw for the points?

Also, the timing seemed to be pretty solid meaning it did not shift much at all. It was not dead nuts on the 10 but went between 10-11ish.

The other concern I had was the lobe that the points go around. Mine is pretty rounded, not sure if there should be a hard edge or not.
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Old 08-06-2017, 03:46 PM   #113
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

What's your hot idle speed?

---> 700 rpmish

Did you have the vac gauge hooked up while you were making adjustments?

------> When I did the fuel/mixture yes.

Did you see the adjustments effecting the reading in any way?

----------> Yes both vac and dwell.

Did you count how many full and partial turns out from gentle seat contact the mixture screws are?

--------> 2.5 like you said and I think it was an 1/8 off of that which was best.

Are both sides the same?

-------> yes.

Yes, the sight plug should come out for checking float level with engine at idle. May not want to have the engine super hot for this. Just warm enough to idle on its own with choke fully opened. Place a catch rag under the hole in case the fuel level is too high and comes dribbling/gushing out. You want the level to be just at or slightly below the bottom of the hole where a slight rock of the vehicle will create a little slosh.

--------> Ok. I have to circle back on this. This was the last thing I did and probably could use a but more fine tuning.
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:25 PM   #114
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

The screw locks the points in place so the gap and dwell can't self adjust. It needs to be tight enough without being too tight. Its pretty small, so it shouldn't require a herculean amount of torque to snug it up. Timing seems pretty steady. The lobes on the points cam aren't that pronounced. That metal is infinitely harder than the sacrificial rubber/plastic rubbing block on the breaker points.
With the manual trans, I'd aim for getting your hot idle speed down around 625. If you had an auto, 750 in Park would be fine. The idle mixture screw adjustments shouldn't have been effecting dwell unless the engine speed was fluctuating somewhat while your were doing it. 1/8th turn in which direction?
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Old 08-07-2017, 02:58 AM   #115
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

OK, to everything.

I forget which direction to be honest but I know that I went until it was just about to stall, then I believe went CCW an 1/8 back...

Gonna see how lucky I get this AM with the screw, going to upsize first.

I feel pretty good about everything and how it went. I am sure if you or someone with more experience then me could probably dial this thing in a little better but that does not seem to be the case to find someone around here (CT) where I live.
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Old 08-07-2017, 03:06 AM   #116
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

OK, let's talk about alternatives to the points now. I am no expert but I get them and feel pretty comfortable outside of to much strength on the screw! I'd like to keep the original look so I was thinking pertronix but you mentioned there were other alternatives. Let's discuss.
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Old 08-07-2017, 05:45 AM   #117
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

Well I did get that screw out and honestly it was a bitSh! It would just spin and spin and there was movement back and forth of the screw but it would not come out. Only way I was able to get it out was to put pressure underneath the points plate itself and even then I had to work at it. And of course as I was taking the screw out with a magnetic screw drive it fell and I can't find it anywhere. I do have the screw from the condenser and it seems to be the same size. Now off the the Nutty Company to see what they have and go from there...never easy. I will continue to look for the screw just so I can recover it. I did not hear it hit the ground so my feeling is it's stuck somewhere in a crack or crevice around the timing chain cover, fuel pump, water pump area...TBC
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:16 AM   #118
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

I know the frustration well of losing a smallish screw. There's really no outside entry point into the engine around that region, which would be my main concern...a foreign metal object getting into a critical bearing surface where it doesn't belong. So the extent of the harm done should be limited to the loss of the screw itself. Just a technical FYI. These IH engines do not have timing chains that wear out and get sloppy over time like other makes. They have gears, which stay nice and tight for many thousands of miles, unless or until there is a catastrophic condition such as loss of internal lubrication. Then they break when the engine seizes up.

As for your IGN system upgrade options, the P-tron module will be the quickest and most straight forward route. There are pros and cons to almost everything. The pros include never having to fiddle with your dwell angle again. More precise and higher spark energy. The cons include initial upfront investment, possibility of module failure from leaving the IGN switched on for too long with the engine stopped, and inability to source replacement parts from local or nearby parts stores in an urgent "just get me back on the road" fashion. That potential module failure I bring up is exclusive to the first generation P-tron offering, which oddly enough is still available for purchase. The Gen II and III offerings are supposed to have internal circuit buffering to keep them from frying, but they are naturally even more spendy than the Gen I module is. And I don't care what IGN system you have from basic points to high performance capacitive discharge systems...it is NEVER a good idea to leave the IGN switched ON for more than BRIEF diagnostic intervals while the engine is stopped. We're talking seconds, not minutes. If you want to listen to tunes while shut down, that's what the ACC position is for. But, we all know that accidents can happen. You leave the engine warming up while you go back inside to finish styling your Conway Twitty pompadour...
meanwhile, unbeknownst to you, your engine stalls out for whatever reason, but that daggum ignyshun is still switched on, daggumit. You come back out ten minutes later and the daggum thing just cranks and cranks but won't restart. No fire. It can happen that easily. So if you go the P-tron route, pony up for at least a Gen II if not a III. Then, retain the removed points brick-a-brack and store it in the glove box. Leave your ballast resistor and present wiring in place. Work it out so that you can bypass the ballast for the P-tron, but then easily re-integrate it for the points should you ever need to as a last resort. In other words, have your low tech, emergency back up system fully available to deploy as a means of getting back under way should the need ever arise, because you're not going to be waltzing into a CRAPA or O'wrongleez and waltzing back out five minutes later with a replacement module in hand. And you just might find yourself stranded in the big piney woods with no parts stores for miles. If you'd have only hung onto those daggum points parts like ol Scoutboy said, you could have this dead engine back chugging again and get yourself home before that cross-eyed, scraggly dude over on the stump missing most of his teeth and pickin' a banjo decides to stop his pickin' and come tell you how purdy your mouth is.
Other upgrade options include integrating a CD (capacitive discharge) box and just using your points to trigger the box. The magic hoodoo voodoo in the box takes that weak points trigger and cranks it up elvendy-billion times before passing it along through your plug wires to the plugs. I don't know much about them, but the interwebz are full of information on the subject.
Another, low cost option is outlined in this thread:
http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/i...nder-30.48159/

For that one, I think you would want to source a secondary IH application Holley points distributor, so that you could go all Fronkenshteen on that one whilst leaving the one in your engine now unmodified to keep you moving along on the low tech points. That should give you plenty to cogitate on for now.
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Old 08-07-2017, 12:02 PM   #119
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

Thanks SB...lot to digest. It's been raining here all day and gonna find that screw if it kills me...just because I want it in my hand. Truck is in a small garage that I need to move it out of to see or move around anywhere. I did get the next size up self tapping screw and going to grind the end down (tip) and install. Hopefully it's that easy. I also bought a used Holley V8 dizzy as well for a spare/parts. Was gonna keep the old points too in case what you said could happen, happens. You never know. I would probably buy the "tree" as we say it around here for my truck...I have to re-read your post on the line resistance before I go to far. There does not seem to be a BR in place but I have to use the meter to check the numbers (ohms reading) before I go much further because I don't want to burn anything out...the story continues...
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Old 08-07-2017, 12:17 PM   #120
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

Is the p-tron install straight forward or there needs to be some cutt'in and splic'n...I assume take the old traditional points off the plate, take the green wire that connects to the coil and the black plug in the dizzy hole and be done with it...don't need the condenser anymore?
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