Dana/Spicer Transfer Case Guapo

michael mayben said:
so the master cylinder "bypassed" internally one time! It needs to go away! Get a new one (not reman) if at all possible!

If the light went out, then the combination valve re-centered itself and did not shear off the activation pin in the switch component. That is a lucky occurrence!

Be sure to bench bleed the replacement mc.

Ain't it strange how the more IH crapballs that come to roost ends up with trickledown for sumthin' else? All yore piles are jealous that the "k" truck is gonna now git some luv. And then the s80 tc project makes 'em all jealous, just like havin' four dawgs and only one treat!
Click to expand...

Yes, it's definitely going away.

Yep, IH's get jealous when one gets worked on and the rest don't. Happens every time.

Lyle
 
michael mayben said:
so the master cylinder "bypassed" internally one time! It needs to go away! Get a new one (not reman) if at all possible!

If the light went out, then the combination valve re-centered itself and did not shear off the activation pin in the switch component. That is a lucky occurrence!

Be sure to bench bleed the replacement mc.

Ain't it strange how the more IH crapballs that come to roost ends up with trickledown for sumthin' else? All yore piles are jealous that the "k" truck is gonna now git some luv. And then the s80 tc project makes 'em all jealous, just like havin' four dawgs and only one treat!
Click to expand...

This story is continued here.
 
michael mayben said:
if you are only gonna do a re-seal, then the gasket/seal kit is common for both the d18 and the d20.

If you are going to do the entire overhaul, you will want a "master" kit which includes a new intermediate shaft...for that you need to specify which diameter shaft the case has in it now. That is easily "measured" by looking at the end of the shaft now where it protrudes from the case and taking a nominal od. Since that one if original is a very early unit, it could have a 1-1/8" intermediate shaft. Otherwise it will be 1-1/4" so it's a pretty easy eyeball deal.

See those two thin sheetmetal "thimbles" protruding from the case that the shift fork rails slide into??? I bet it's leaking badly from that area. I have a few new thimbles left, don't believe ya can get those anywhere now except maybe novak. They can be cleaned up and "swedged" to re-install if they are not rotten.

The gasket/seal kits will have several components not used in the d18, and other parts that are for variations of the d18 (early) that date back pre-wwii. So ya just pick and chose what ya need.
Click to expand...

Finally got back to the tc project this morning. It's all apart and the inside looks great. No sign of any moisture at any time and the gears are in great shape. No missing teeth, nicks or dings. The leak was from the front shaft yoke seal as evidenced by all the mud, gunk and stuff caked on the housing. Bearings feel and look good. The intermediate shaft checks out at 1.249-1.2495" on the bearing surfaces, though I have not been able to find what the minimum is listed anywhere. Looks like all I'm needing is a seal/gasket set.

Lyle
 
lyle wiese said:
finally got back to the tc project this morning. It's all apart and the inside looks great. No sign of any moisture at any time and the gears are in great shape. No missing teeth, nicks or dings. The leak was from the front shaft yoke seal as evidenced by all the mud, gunk and stuff caked on the housing. Bearings feel and look good. The intermediate shaft checks out at 1.249-1.2495" on the bearing surfaces, though I have not been able to find what the minimum is listed anywhere. Looks like all I'm needing is a seal/gasket set.

Lyle
Click to expand...

Great!

Any measurable wear on the intermediate shaft, or corrosion is unacceptable, since it serves as the inner race for the bearing/gear interface. I have some of those shafts that are perfect wear-wise, but since moisture was obviously present in the oil, there are corrosion tracks and etching in spots on the bearing surface, so those are not usable, they would eat the roller bearings real quick and allow the intermediate gear to "cock" under load. They could be ground/polished but then the roller clearance would be too great and those shafts are relatively inexpensive to replace anyway.

So setting the pre-load/end-play on the tapered bearings will be the only real challenge but it's no big deal. I have a big box of many assorted shims for those cases, if ya end up needing any, I'll just bring the box to the meeting on the 6th and ya can keep it until ya git through.
 
So then I am assuming the intermediate shaft should measure out at 1.25"?? I'll take it to work and double check it with some mics that I know are calibrated and accurate.

There were 2 shims under the rear cap. Maybe I'll get lucky and won't need any, but plan on bringing yours anyway. I'll let you know if I don't need them, but with the rat race at work I May not get back to this project real soon.

Thanks,

lyle
 
lyle wiese said:
so then I am assuming the intermediate shaft should measure out at 1.25"?? I'll take it to work and double check it with some mics that I know are calibrated and accurate.

There were 2 shims under the rear cap. Maybe I'll get lucky and won't need any, but plan on bringing yours anyway. I'll let you know if I don't need them, but with the rat race at work I May not get back to this project real soon.

Thanks,

lyle
Click to expand...

Yes, seems there is no +/- diameter spec for the idler shaft od, but all six of the shafts I have that are usable measure 1.250" exactly on the bearing surfaces that are easily discerned.

I've pulled the box with all the small parts/shims/thimbles/extra gaskets/etc. Out so I'll bring it with me!
 
michael mayben said:
yes, seems there is no +/- diameter spec for the idler shaft od, but all six of the shafts I have that are usable measure 1.250" exactly on the bearing surfaces that are easily discerned.

I've pulled the box with all the small parts/shims/thimbles/extra gaskets/etc. Out so I'll bring it with me!
Click to expand...



What is the spec for the bore on the intermediate gear set? Since that is the outer race, I will take it in to have it mearsured as well.

Thanks for bringing the parts.

Lyle
 
lyle wiese said:
what is the spec for the bore on the intermediate gear set? Since that is the outer race, I will take it in to have it mearsured as well.

Thanks for bringing the parts.

Lyle
Click to expand...

I'm likin' 1.625 for the nominal oem bore diameter. All the samples I have (n=5) show 1.6255>1.626". A portion of the bore untouched by the bearings shows 1.625".
 
I took the intermediate gear and shaft into work and checked them with a calibrated mic and a cmm. The shaft shows maybe .0002" of wear and the id of the gear .0002-.0003". Not bad for 47+ years. If I was going to actually "wheel" this rig, I would replace the gear and shaft, but since this is only going to see some street use, I'm going to run what I have.

The gasket/seal kit and new yoke nuts and washers are due in on Friday from our good friends who so generously let us use this very informative site.

Lyle
 
lyle wiese said:
I took the intermediate gear and shaft into work and checked them with a calibrated mic and a cmm. The shaft shows maybe .0002" of wear and the id of the gear .0002-.0003". Not bad for 47+ years. If I was going to actually "wheel" this rig, I would replace the gear and shaft, but since this is only going to see some street use, I'm going to run what I have.

The gasket/seal kit and new yoke nuts and washers are due in on Friday from our good friends who so generously let us use this very informative site.

Lyle
Click to expand...

You win...again!

Jes' for the hail of it...what is the part number on that intermediate gear you have? Lemme see if I can beat it! I know what it is supposed to be, but after 47+ years let's verify!
 
Reassembled the tc as far as I could today. Looks like the replacement front cap gasket is thinner than the original. I need another .020" of shims under the rear cap to maintain the output shaft axial clearance of .002"-.006". With the two .030" shims, I have less than zero. I pulled the shims out of another t-18 I had on the shelf; it also had 2-.030" shims. Must be the factory standard.

This is the first time I have seen gaskets under lip seals. These gaskets were included in the kit from ihon. I'm impressed!

Lyle
 
lyle wiese said:
reassembled the tc as far as I could today. Looks like the replacement front cap gasket is thinner than the original. I need another .020" of shims under the rear cap to maintain the output shaft axial clearance of .002"-.006". With the two .030" shims, I have less than zero. I pulled the shims out of another t-18 I had on the shelf; it also had 2-.030" shims. Must be the factory standard.

This is the first time I have seen gaskets under lip seals. These gaskets were included in the kit from ihon. I'm impressed!

Lyle
Click to expand...

My "theory" about those seals...

Back in the mid-30's (1900's not 1800's!!!) when that case was developed, sealing elements as you know were rawhide, elastomers were unknown at that point as far as being used in seals and such. The steel seal "case" was also just a simple stamping and not very precisely done.

So the seal "gaskets" were used to reduce fluid migration around the case of the seal, kinda like the more modern encapsulated seals that are prevalent today.

And...because when those rawhide seals leaked (and they did so terribly!), resulting saturation of the seal lip embedded with grime ate the groove in the rotating member (the yokes). So then a replacement seal could not "seal". That's where we sometimes use the speedee sleeve overlay which are super expensive. So by using the gaskets as shims for the seal itself, it can be re-located slightly within reason) in it's bore so that the lip can ride on a undisturbed surface on the yoke shank.

These gasket/seal sets we market (along with many other sources) are assembled by aftermarket suppliers (actually one in particular!), spicer/Dana has not done these parts since the late-80's. So no doubt there are many variations in the gasket paper thickness, that's not a problem since when rebuilding, one should do exactly what you are doing...shim it up correctly!

You are also going to see that the "texas-pattern" gasket between the trans and the case May not be cut correctly for the IH stuff. No big deal, just whoop out the scissors and have at it! And you will have quite a few gaskets left over.
 
lyle wiese said:
I win??? Good!! What did I win?

How does 1859p2t2 sound?

Lyle
Click to expand...

That intermediate gear is actually spicer p/n 18-5-9. It should have a tooth count of 39 x 18 and a helix angle of 20* and was used in some d20 cases.

Unfortunately, I have none of that part number in my stash here for comparison to see if we have a better one!
 
It's reassembled with a new coat of paint. Looks a lot different than when I took it out.

I added two .010" shims to the two .030" already on the tc. Gave me an axial clearance of .0025".

Didn't need any of the thimbles; all this tc has is 1 cast "thimble" supporting the 2/4wd shift rod (I think), well, the longer of the two shift rods.

I'll get it put back in the truck this week.

Thanks for the shims Mike.

Lyle
 
Good deal!

Go through that box of "stuff" and remove anything you think you May need for doing another 18 or a 20 in the future. Keep an assortment of all the shims like we discussed the other night. Keep two of the new thimbles for future use on something else.

Also keep that 1-1/4" intermediate shaft for future use and if ya wanna mess with it, you can pick out a full set of roller bearings from that cup, I believe those are all new, just mixed up, you are bound to have a d20 around there someday that needs help?

I think that sealed bag roller bearing kit is for a np203/205, not a d18/20.
 
michael mayben said:
good deal!

Go through that box of "stuff" and remove anything you think you May need for doing another 18 or a 20 in the future. Keep an assortment of all the shims like we discussed the other night. Keep two of the new thimbles for future use on something else.

Also keep that 1-1/4" intermediate shaft for future use and if ya wanna mess with it, you can pick out a full set of roller bearings from that cup, I believe those are all new, just mixed up, you are bound to have a d20 around there someday that needs help?

I think that sealed bag roller bearing kit is for a np203/205, not a d18/20.
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks Mike, I will.

Lyle
 
Anyone know a good way to get this allen screw to loosen up? Since it has been constantly covered in oil it can't be rusted. I have tried to tap it with a mallet and with a hammer, but it doesn't want to budge. It's not a reverse thread or anything is it?
dsc02644.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top