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Old 08-12-2017, 11:14 AM   #151
428street
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

BHC close up pic
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:51 PM   #152
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

That is most helpful. very interesting with the two wire arrangement on the solenoid 'R' terminal. We can identify the wires on your solenoid like so:

4ga battery POS feed to large sol terminal (black, no circuit #)
14ga feed from large sol terminal to external VR terminal 3 (yellow #4)
10ga feed from large sol terminal to ammeter gauge via BHC (blue #5)
14ga feed from IGN SW 'S' terminal via BHC to sol 'S' terminal (yellow #14)
18ga feed from sol 'R' terminal to coil POS terminal (green #12)
18ga feed from sol 'R' terminal to where? via BHC (green #12A)

Your mission Jim, should you choose to accept it, is to trace out circuit #12A in your diagram to the labeled origin point inside the cabin, which I'm assuming is a terminal on the IGN switch. I'm still not understanding how they dealt with providing the correct resistance to the points...unless the original coil had a much higher primary resistance, like 3.0 ohm or above.

There are several BHC's on your firewall. One for rear light group, one for front light group and one for engine controls. Knowing which is which comes down to identifying the circuit numbers contained in each one.
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Old 08-13-2017, 03:55 AM   #153
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

In the next day or so I will tackle this assignment.
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Old 08-13-2017, 07:00 AM   #154
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

Sure. Or you can snap a pic of the manual page that shows where that wire goes and I can trace it out on my screen. The more I've been thinking about it since yesterday, the more my last speculation about the original coil having a higher primary resistance makes sense. That accounts for no depiction or mention in the manual of a ballast resistor or a resistor wire and thus no sign of those items on your Scout. The points had to be protected by resistance somehow. That's pretty much a law. So if there was no resistor wire or ballast resistor, then the only other way of accomplishing it would have been with a higher resistance coil. Obviously, that coil is gone now, and that's fine. Having a lower resistance coil combined with a ballast is a fine way to achieve the proper resistance total for points. Plus, if/when you do go electric, you don't want a high resistance coil for that. 1.5 ohm primary resistance is the norm. I don't know if the .3 higher factor of your present coil would be a deal breaker for a P-tron module. I'm guessing not, but that's a question for P-tron tech support if/when you get to that point.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:02 AM   #155
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

Here the entire diagram...I broke it into three sections and then one in it's entirety. It does mention the 72" coil exactly as you discussed in the upper right hand corner of the diagram.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:32 AM   #156
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

Very helpful again. We should have gone to these diagrams sooner. So #12A running between the solenoid 'R' terminal and the firewall BHC is a standard, 18ga, green wire. Then according to note #1, it becomes circuit #12, a 20ga resistor wire, 72 inches in length, running between the IGN switch and the BHC, all under the dash. Very interesting. I did not realize that they ever ran a resistance wire under the dash. That's not how they did it in later years with the SII and fullsize models. Probably for good reason, too. The learning continues.

This settles the speculation and debate over how the total resistance factor was dealt with on the 800. I'd really like to get eyes on this portion of the wire. As long as it is intact and unmodified, you theoretically don't need to change anything for as long as you retain the points. When you do go electronic, that resistor wire portion would need to be replaced with a standard wire. If you have a ballast resistor ordered already, you might consider the option of doing away with that resistor wire now and incorporating the BR in advance of going electronic.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:41 AM   #157
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

It's totally my fault, I've had this and never used it. Can't make any excuses up...but we go forward...so, let me sit on this a bit and get back to you...just processing everything between crazy life with two teenagers..lmao...I did order a 1.4 ohm BR so that should be in soon...did we figure out if I needed that wire from solenoid to + side of coil?
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Old 08-13-2017, 11:22 AM   #158
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

If the resistor wire under the dash is verified to be all good, and you leave it in place, then you wouldn't need to run any additional wire from 'R' terminal to the coil POS. I surmise how it works with the factory wiring is, during starter cranking only, full voltage is passed directly from the 'R' terminal to the coil to aid in firing the engine up. Once the engine lights off and the starter is released, the 'R' terminal then becomes a passive junction, transferring the IGN ON resisted feed up to the coil to keep the points happy and the engine running. If you discover the resistor wire is compromised, or you just want to replace it now, some changes will need to be made with those two green wires attached to the solenoid 'R' terminal as well. Those will be easy peasy for me to walk you through if/when you want. I won't bore you with it now.

If your confident that your throttle linkage can fully open and snap shut when released every time with no binds or hiccups and you can get your peepers on that #12 resistor wire under the dash and don't see any issues with it, then you're ready to start cruising. Maybe you'll want to log a few miles and trips and see how things go before you decide your ready to make any further changes.
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Hooty - '74 SII - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x10.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/HFT 8k winch
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Old 08-13-2017, 11:50 AM   #159
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

ok, hold the presses.

Let's assume the wiring harness is original as I truly believe it is minus an end change (terminal) or two. This entire truck was original albeit its share of rust and rot. It even had the original floor mats.

So, prior to me not presenting the diagrams we discussed this 72" green resistive wire that most likely was coiled up and taped together on the coil/engine bay side. Correct? I'm 99.999% sure if that is the case that it is gone as there is a splice from the PO with a red lead that now goes to + side of coil.

Are you saying to check under the dash to see if that coil of wire is under the dash hiding somewhere? I took apart the gauge cluster plate and that gave me decent access to all the wiring behind the dash and I did not see that cluster of green wire at all. One of my to do's is to replace the IGSw with a new one which I have, I can do that and at the same time check for this bundle to be 100% sure it is not there.

I'm not yet confident that my throttle sticking issue is resolved. I have bought several new return springs with tighter wind/stronger to see if thats the issue but I have not put them on because my ignition is torn apart - I took the coil out of the bracket, disconnected wires to trace, etc.
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:00 PM   #160
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

this is the best shot I have of the coil side wiring harness...
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Old 08-13-2017, 02:20 PM   #161
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

The resistance wire won't be green, and won't be jacketed in the typical plastic. We need to remember that the resistance wire dissipates the voltage and current (watts) by producing heat. The actual resistance element is a resistive chrome alloy wire. Not unlike a plug in electric heater but at a lower temperature. They are commonly jacketed in a woven fiberglass or other woven high temp material that is usually white but not always white. They are usually under the dash protected from intimate contact with other plastics.
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Old 08-13-2017, 03:08 PM   #162
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

Thanks Robert, I will look for it...you won't happen to have a picture of it in an 800 would you?
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Old 08-13-2017, 03:11 PM   #163
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

No, but I wish I did.
I do have a photo from my 65 ignition switch that shows the/a resistance wire.
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:00 PM   #164
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

Yeah, Robert got you covered before I could. But that's exactly what I was trying to convey in my last message. The notations in your manual make it quite plain. The wire is under the dash, not on the engine block as I'm used to on later models. And just as I'd described to you many posts ago, while still incorrectly expecting to see this wire on the engine block, the insulation will look drastically different than any of your other normal wires.
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:42 PM   #165
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Default Re: Need help with vacuum advance with 304 and 2300 Holley

I see, I see said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw...

OK, so this looks to be right at or close to the ignition switch...looks kind of like one of the Chinese toys you put your fingers in as a kid but couldn't get them out...
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