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Old 02-13-2013, 08:46 PM   #1
MrFixxit68
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Default Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

I have a 304 engine which I bought used, I put the engine,trans,t-case in my 74 Scout. Ran crappy. I, checked the timing, checked for vacuum leaks, all good. Changed the plugs, still ran crappy. Rebult carb, still acting like its only running on 5 cylinders. Did compression test. All good 1 and 8 were 15lbs lower than the others. Borrowed a friends carb that I know was good. Still ran the same. Put on new wires, dist cap and rotor. Still the same. Checked to see if I was getting spark to all the plugs (yes) next while it was running pulled of the wires one at a time on 1 8 3noticed when I pulled #1, 8 and 4 off the engine ran the same. Thinking that maybe I have bad or fouled plugs in the #1,8,and 4 hole. I switched the plugs from the 8 and 4 hole to the 2 and 6 hole. The engine ran the same. I pulled the wires from the dist on the 1,8,4 and the engine ran as before. I pulled out the plugs on 1 8 4 and visually saw a spark on all while running, the engine still ran the same. What the heck!!! This thing is driving me crazy...I'm about ready to drop a dodge 360 in the thing. Any ideas?
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:02 PM   #2
Scoutboy74
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Default Re: Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

Are you certain that the plug wires are routed correctly? What brand of spark plugs? If champions, I'd ditch 'em in favor of ngk or autolite 85's. I know there are still one or two folks who like the champs, but they're junk imho. You should check into the possibility of stuck valves and/or missing/damaged pushrods on the affected cylinders. The carb swap with no remedy seems to rule out the possibility of this being a fuel delivery issue.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:40 AM   #3
MrFixxit68
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Default Re: Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

I'm positive about the wire location, I replaced the plugs with the same one as came out autolite 303. I checked the push rods when I had the rocker assemblies off to replace a cracked pedestal. So they are good. While I had the valve covers off I ran the engine to see if all the rockers were going up and down, I had a friend suggest that maybe it was the cam so I checked to see if all the rockers were going up and down. I going to try a new set of ngk's and see what happens.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:15 AM   #4
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Default Re: Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

When you checked comp...was this done with all spark plugs removed and the throttle blocked open? If not, your readings are flawed. Does this have a breaker points distributor? Are the points in good shape and gapped correctly? Do you have a way to measure the dwell angle while the engine is running? Perhaps someone got creative with the dizz cap and put the wrong one on...poor fitment? What are the condition of the plug wires? If it all sketchy, you ought to replace them one at a time while you're at it. As to checking spark plugs for spark, were you situating them so that the electrode was roughly 3/8ths of an inch away from ground? It takes a spark strong enough to jump an air gap out in the open to be sufficient to ignite the air/fuel mixture inside the combustion chamber.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:33 AM   #5
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Default Re: Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

When the plugs were pulled on the dead cylinders, were they dry, wet or oily? Perhaps the problem is a vacuum leak due to a rusted welsh plug on the bottom of the intake?
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoutboy74 View Post
. I know there are still one or two folks who like the champs, but they're junk imho.

people make this statement but never once have I seen it substantiated...... Not once..

You know I run nothing but champions including in the turbo 210 cessna.
They make 2000hp in the funny car, 500+ in the 409 my roadster has in it 86 in my Scout 80. How many more instances do we need.

oh....oh....oh I forgot to mention, the only engine I don't run champions in is the diesel International in my Ford f350....
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:28 PM   #7
MrFixxit68
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Default Re: Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

Checked comp as you described, electronic ignition, new plug wires,tried 3 dist caps. The last was new. Did not hold the plug 3/8 from ground will do that tomorrow. For chappie the plugs seemed to be carbon fouled black in color
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:26 PM   #8
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Default Re: Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

Fixit, if your wire location is correct I'm quite certain you have an operational ignition system.
I'm going to suggest that you look more deeply into an air/fuel problem. The issue is usually lean so supplementing one barrel an a time with a light spray of fuel while at idle will help point us in a new direction.
Warm up the engine and while idling drizzle/ spray gas into each barrel one at a time and see if the rpm picks up on one side. Good carb cleaner will work too and it is easier to apply. The added fuel will correct a lean condition. I assume it runs well at road speeds?
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

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Originally Posted by Robert kenney View Post

people make this statement but never once have I seen it substantiated...... Not once..

You know I run nothing but champions including in the turbo 210 cessna.
They make 2000hp in the funny car, 500+ in the 409 my roadster has in it 86 in my Scout 80. How many more instances do we need.

oh....oh....oh I forgot to mention, the only engine I don't run champions in is the diesel International in my Ford f350....
See, you don't really believe in them then...oh wait...dee-smell motor. Don't need sparklers. Got it. Well, okay it is my opinion, which I will continue to stand behind, at least on a personal basis, but in the future I will try to do guuder about not spouting it in publik. Although I do feel it is in the same vane as the opinion I offer regarding fram oil filters. In that case, I truly believe in my heart that I'm providing a worthwhile public service by poo-pooing them.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

Does this engine have an egr on it? If so try pressing in the diaphragm to open it with your finger. If the engine runs the same, you've found the problem.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:35 PM   #11
MrFixxit68
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Default Re: Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

The engine hesitated when I pushed on the diapharm
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:45 PM   #12
MrFixxit68
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Default Re: Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

Put in new ngk plugs. Checked spark getting at least 3/8 or more of spark, shot carb cleaner down each barrel and it stalled the engine. Still missing badly at idle 1,4.8 still not firing. Upon acceleration it seams to run better.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:15 PM   #13
Robert Kenney
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Default Re: Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

Simply shooting the carb cleaner in max spray will flood it out. It needs to be a gentle application like the normal supply the idle circuit would be allowing even a eye dropper dripping in would be enough.

Have you set the idle screws for best rpm highest vacuum?
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:33 PM   #14
Bill Bennett
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Default Re: Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

When you bought the cap and rotor, did you buy them as a 'matched set'? If you use the Ford Holley cap and rotor, they can be purchased in a bubble wrapped pack. They look just like the cap and rotor used by IH but I understand the height of the cap is different, so the matching rotor must be purchased with the cap.
Besides, the Ford cap and rotor are easier to find.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:04 PM   #15
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Default Re: Cylinder 1,8,4 not firing

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Originally Posted by bill bennett View Post
when you bought the cap and rotor, did you buy them as a 'matched set'? If you use the Ford Holley cap and rotor, they can be purchased in a bubble wrapped pack. They look just like the cap and rotor used by IH but I understand the height of the cap is different, so the matching rotor must be purchased with the cap.
Besides, the Ford cap and rotor are easier to find.
This is true the caps are almost alike only the Ford cap is ~1/4" taller so you must use the matching Ford rotor
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