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Old 02-04-2013, 06:10 PM   #1
61monster
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Default Help me build my scout 80:-)

Hello everyone. I would like your input on my Scout 80 build up/restoration. I am doing a frame off restoration with new axles, tranny, transfer case, suspension, electrical....you get the picture. I intend on using the Scout 75% as a daily driver and 25% offroad(no rock climbing). I know I need to replace the stock axles since I am going with a more powerful engine than the stock 152. Im leaning towards Dana 60's front and rear(4.56) with trac lock lockers, and high steer arms. I would also like to complete a SOA with reverse shackles. I also plan to put 35x12.50x17 wheels and tires. For the engine, cummins 4bt mated to a nv4500 and atlas transfer case. The body is very rough. Lots of rust and I will have to replace some of the sheet metal. This Scout has been part of my family for a while now so the extra tlc will be worth it. I am a metal fab instructor by trade and have just a little mechanical experience but im going to give this my best shot. The body is now off the frame and I will be pulling the engine-transfer case next. Maybe I will have the new axles and springs under it by late spring. Any input is appreciated. I know you guys have a wealth of knowledge! Thanks for letting me be part of the IHPartsAmerica family.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:39 PM   #2
Scooter
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Default Re: Help me build my scout 80:-)

Welcome to the forum.
For a mostly daily driven rig, like yours being an 80 model, I think the Dana 60 axles might be a bit over kill. Properly built Dana 44's front and rear will hold up well with 35" tires. 4.56 gears would be a good choice for 35" tires.

You had asked me about the orange 1962 Scout 80 I had worked on. As I mentioned, that one sits on 35" tires and Dana 44 axles front and rear. I currently don't remember the gear ratio. I personally have been running 4.56 gears in my Dana 44's in my own Scout II's. And I roll on 33" tires on one and 35" on another the Scout II's have a few hundred more pounds above the 80 models.

The atlas is a great transfer case. I used one in one of my own previous non IH rigs. I assume you want to go that route in order to upgrade from the Dana 18 transfer case. Out of curiousity, have ya thought of the Dana 20 transfer case? They can be re-geared with the tera-low gear set. Which changes the low range to 3.15. I have done that and works well.

Just a food for thought. Good luck with the build. I agree that there is a wealth of knowledge residing here in the forum.
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73 Scout II - 73 Beast SOA, Shackle Reversal. Several things being re-worked through out.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:57 PM   #3
61monster
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Default Re: Help me build my scout 80:-)

The Dana 44's have been mentioned to me as well as the 60's might be overkill on what the Scout will be used for. I May end up going the d44 route instead of the 60. I just want to make sure that I dont "under do" the axles in the long run. Thanks scooter!
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:52 PM   #4
61monster
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Default Re: Help me build my scout 80:-)

Does anyone have experience with a long travel suspension on a Scout 80?
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:03 PM   #5
Tracy72RN
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Default Re: Help me build my scout 80:-)

If you ever plan to do hwy speeds (70 mph +-) 4.56 gears and 35" tires will be too numerically high. You'd be at nearly 2300 rpm at 70 mph and that's not a good cruising rpm for the cummins. The sweet spot for the 6bt is 1700-2000 rpm at hwy speeds for the best economy and power...I'd wager the 4bt is the same or at least close.

So you'd either need bigger tires which would be great with d-60's or go with 3.73 or 4.10 gears in d-44's with your 35's...I'd run 3.73's if it were me.

Of course if you think you'd never do more than 60...or only need 70 for short bursts then by all means go the 4.56's...in town and offroad it would be spectacular!
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1974 Scout II 345/T-18/D20/D30-44 f/r
1967 M416 1/4 ton trailer
1987 comanche 4.0L/AW4/D300/10b-14b f/r 37's
2003 dodge cummins 3500 SRW
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:00 AM   #6
61monster
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Default Re: Help me build my scout 80:-)

Thanks for the reply tracy. The daily driving the Scout will see is all in 45-55 mph speed zones( to work and back) so I May be able to get by with the 4bt and 4.56. I found a 4bt mated to a Ford t19 four speed. Do you think this would be a good fit for my application. Also, what is a good price for a set of rebuilt Dana 60's with 4.56, detroits in both, disc brakes on both, high steer, 1 ton drag link and tie rods? Again, im fairly new to this game and I can only look at whats been sold and whats for sale now;-) thanks again for your help


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Originally Posted by tracy72rn View Post
if you ever plan to do hwy speeds (70 mph +-) 4.56 gears and 35" tires will be too numerically high. You'd be at nearly 2300 rpm at 70 mph and that's not a good cruising rpm for the cummins. The sweet spot for the 6bt is 1700-2000 rpm at hwy speeds for the best economy and power...I'd wager the 4bt is the same or at least close.

So you'd either need bigger tires which would be great with d-60's or go with 3.73 or 4.10 gears in d-44's with your 35's...I'd run 3.73's if it were me.

Of course if you think you'd never do more than 60...or only need 70 for short bursts then by all means go the 4.56's...in town and offroad it would be spectacular!
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:16 AM   #7
Tracy72RN
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Default Re: Help me build my scout 80:-)

If you're going to use the t-19...which has no overdrive then you will not want 4.56 axles at all. 55 mph will put you at 2400 rpm and you don't want to be cruising at that rpm with that motor. Even at 45 mph you'd be at almost 2000. If you go with no od and run the cummins with 35's I'd run 3.55...keeps you a bit under 1900 rpm at 55 mph...which gives you a bit of room to cruise at a higher speed if you wish but should give you plenty of power. My 6bt in my dodge (weighs 6250 lbs empty) moves very well and it's bone stock with 160 hp and 400 tq. You can easily get that from a 4bt with minimal mods and your Scout will not weigh even close to 6000 lbs.

A rear d60 in stock config...whatever it came out of should run $100-250 depending on where you get it. Figure new gears will set you back about $250 +- and a locker will run at least $500....then you have labor costs. A front d-60 in stock form will set you back $800-1200 depending on what it's from...the hp Ford d-60 fronts bring a premium because they are the 'strongest' but also are driver drop diff so you probably won't end up with one of those. So add in the gear a locker prices above and you're going to spend a bit of cash.

I've seen already built sets of these axles go anywhere from $1500-$5000 depending on how good the parts are in them.
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1974 Scout II 345/T-18/D20/D30-44 f/r
1967 M416 1/4 ton trailer
1987 comanche 4.0L/AW4/D300/10b-14b f/r 37's
2003 dodge cummins 3500 SRW
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:12 AM   #8
61monster
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Default Re: Help me build my scout 80:-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tracy72rn View Post
if you're going to use the t-19...which has no overdrive then you will not want 4.56 axles at all. 55 mph will put you at 2400 rpm and you don't want to be cruising at that rpm with that motor. Even at 45 mph you'd be at almost 2000. If you go with no od and run the cummins with 35's I'd run 3.55...keeps you a bit under 1900 rpm at 55 mph...which gives you a bit of room to cruise at a higher speed if you wish but should give you plenty of power. My 6bt in my dodge (weighs 6250 lbs empty) moves very well and it's bone stock with 160 hp and 400 tq. You can easily get that from a 4bt with minimal mods and your Scout will not weigh even close to 6000 lbs.

A rear d60 in stock config...whatever it came out of should run $100-250 depending on where you get it. Figure new gears will set you back about $250 +- and a locker will run at least $500....then you have labor costs. A front d-60 in stock form will set you back $800-1200 depending on what it's from...the hp Ford d-60 fronts bring a premium because they are the 'strongest' but also are driver drop diff so you probably won't end up with one of those. So add in the gear a locker prices above and you're going to spend a bit of cash.

I've seen already built sets of these axles go anywhere from $1500-$5000 depending on how good the parts are in them.
After reading a lot about the 4bt swap, I May just go with a sbf. The conversions are just so dang expensive. I came up with a total of over 7k for the conversion and then I would need to upgrade the t case after that. Keeping my original transmission and t case and going with a 302 sounds more reasonable. Wish I could find a turn key 304 to stay within the IH family of engines. On the axles, I found a company that can send a rebuilt 4.56 14 bolt with a detroit locker and disc brakes and rebuilt front Dana 60 with warn lock outs with disc brakes, high steer arms, one ton tie rods and drag link, and narrowed for $4500 shipped to my door. Sounded like a decent price. What do you guys think?
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