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Old 07-24-2013, 06:30 AM   #16
Patrick Morris
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

That quick of a turn-around? Did find the 7100s in stock somewhere? That'd be nice.

Btw, for my lift and spring plates, I cut my towers to 9". In case I didn't say so above. I used my chop-saw, but a sawsall would work too.

Later today I'll post a pic of that dummy-shock tool my friend loaned me.

And if you've never looked closely at the rear's upper mounts, you May want to inspect them closely. The factory used kinda thin metal for those and they tend to 'hog out' after a while. Or even tear apart. I welded some reinforcements onto mine years ago, using some 1/4" steel. I can post a pic of that as well.

You will also want to rig some kind of strap to keep the shocks compressed when the time comes to install them. Bilsteins, fox, etc are a pita in that one respect.

Edit: just remembered, you can see that strap in the first pic I posted. It's got a hole burned into it for the n2 valve at the top of the shock. Since the shock in that pic is a 5100, the hole is going unused obviously.

Last edited by Patrick Morris; 07-25-2013 at 11:01 AM..
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:51 AM   #17
Patrick Morris
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

Update: I'm beginning to wonder if the 255/70 valving is ideal for the rear. I am starting to feel that it's a little soft on rebound. Kinda lets the rear end fly up in the air a little too easily on big, sudden bumps. And that's not something that'll improve with a full load of gear and fuel.

Hard to say what I should go up to. I think the next increments are 275, 300, and 345. I think there are some nonstandard valvings that go to 360 and 400, but that seems extreme. So I'd need to buy a new set of rebound shims from somewhere, at some point. And I need to procure a nitrogen tank... Which is something I knew going in.

This is one aspect where fox kicks butt over Bilstein. I guess fox will give their customers one free re-valve on shocks. My friend (with the '72) says he wants to do this as well with his fox shocks. He wants to go up a little with the rear shocks' rebound.

One other thing I noticed about the rear shocks, which I ordered a couple months after the fronts: they seemed to be softer overall than the front ones, for some reason, when just compressing them by hand. The front ones were a b-I-t-c-h to compress. The rears were definitely easier. Not sure why. I didn't have a means to check the gas pressure. Pressure would definitely make a difference. I suppose when I take them apart eventually I can determine then what set of shims they actually gave me.

I should add though that the Scout does drive great on the street. It's funny, I don't feel the ripples and tar strips anymore. The shocks somehow manage to absorb that kind of movement really well. And they also seem to reduce body roll a bit. Since I installed them I haven't reinstalled my factory sway bar. And I kinda feel like the Scout doesn't really "need" it anymore. Even after I did the cut-and-turn the Scout seemed to have a wee bit of squirrelliness to it on uneven pavement. But seems more under control now.

Last edited by Patrick Morris; 08-01-2013 at 07:11 AM..
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:42 PM   #18
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

So I ordered mine and upon doing so I thought the price was a little higher than what you had said. Didnt think much of it, went and picked them up got them home and I open the box to find the resevor style. What!! That explains the price hike. So now I will have to make some kind of shock hoop in the front and something in the rear. I did however install the rear and found what you said. I could compress them with a little elbow grease and straped the resevor to the shock itself and drove around and thought they were a little stiff!?!? Not sure. I noticed a huge diffrence driving over the curb to my driveway. Still playing with ideas for the front. Ill keep you posted
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:15 PM   #19
Patrick Morris
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

Quote:
Originally Posted by chico View Post
so I ordered mine and upon doing so I thought the price was a little higher than what you had said. Didnt think much of it, went and picked them up got them home and I open the box to find the resevor style. What!! That explains the price hike. So now I will have to make some kind of shock hoop in the front and something in the rear. I did however install the rear and found what you said. I could compress them with a little elbow grease and straped the resevor to the shock itself and drove around and thought they were a little stiff!?!? Not sure. I noticed a huge diffrence driving over the curb to my driveway. Still playing with ideas for the front. Ill keep you posted
Shock hoops? Not sure what you mean. But don't the res type shocks come with plastic fittings and hose clamps to mount the reses on the shocks themselves?

Darn, if you knew that you were going to be buying the shocks with reservoirs, you might as well have gotten the 10-inch "short body" shocks: 10" of travel and a minimum length of not much over 14". They'd work great at the front and rear, and for the front you wouldn't need such tall towers. Might even get away with not having to hardly cut the sheet metal skirts.

As for my damping, I got these 7100s with the full knowledge that I'd be playing around with them at some point. So as soon as I get a n2 bottle and regulator (my friend and I talked of splitting the cost on it) I might pull mine apart and have a look-see.

One thing I really ought to do first, before going hog wild into a revalving project, is load up my truck with the equivalent weight of a good load of expedition gear: full main tank, 10 gals of extra gas, 5-10 gal of water, ice chest, and about 50 more pounds, just for good measure. Then go driving over some bumps and see how it handles.

Sure wish I had some bags of cement or lead shot lying around. :-) that would be easier and quicker for the experiment than the assortment of stuff I mentioned above.
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:14 PM   #20
Patrick Morris
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

Just to expand a little on how the rear end feels, when I hit a speed bump at 15-20 mph, the front end rolls over it with out too much drama and recovers very quickly. But the rear end seems to hop into the air a little more and doesn't recover as quickly.

It's said obvious that angling a shock over, as the Scout's rear shocks must be mounted, reduces the shock's effective damping. I read somewhere that it is something on the order of 10% reduction for every 10* of angle tilted over. I would imagine that's a very rough number though and actually dependent on how far over the shock actually is. (the reduction for 0->10* will be different than 30->40*.) so this is part of the reason I suspect the damping might be light in the rear, vs. The front.

Another odd thing I've noticed is that under these medium speed speed-bump encounters, if I give it a little extra gas as I'm going over the bump, the rear tires can chirp at around the high point. This tells me they are getting slightly airborne and I don't think they should be doing that. Haven't figured out yet if this is normal though. In fairness to Bilstein I've never tried these repeated experiments with my old ranchos (at any setting) so I can't say if the ranchos wouldn't do the same thing.

But I'll have to load it up, as I was saying, and do some driving.
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:05 PM   #21
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

Nice. I ran bilsteins in my 74. No issues what so ever. Patrick, it sounds as if the rear shocks were not valved properly. I had to use ratcheting straps in order to compress all four of my shocks

when I did the SOA in my 74 Scout, I almost went with the same Ford style brackets up front. But I went with self made shock hoops up front instead.







My rear shocks used the oem upper shock mounting location with new weld on tabs onto the axle tube. And they were angle almost like how oem was setup. Once installed it was like driving a cadillac on steroids. My street is pot hole central and my Scout drove over them like it was nothing and just grinned and asked if that was all ya got?
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File Type: jpg New Shocks - Mounted2.JPG (98.0 KB, 777 views)
File Type: jpg New Shocks - Mounted3.JPG (85.9 KB, 1152 views)
File Type: jpg New Shocks - Mounted1.JPG (111.9 KB, 1029 views)
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73 Scout II - 73 Beast SOA, Shackle Reversal. Several things being re-worked through out.
72 Scout II - Ole Yeller - About ready to roll around town.
74 Scout II - Barrel Rolled - Rest in peace
72 Scout II = SOLD
51 Studebaker pickup - A non running project. Slowly in the works
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:15 AM   #22
Patrick Morris
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

Hi scooter. Nice mounts! If I could bend tubing I might have considered that. Great thing about your mounts is that there's absolutely no clearance issues around the shocks. It's very forgiving of placement. The Ford towers have to be mounted more carefully of course, to ensure there's no interference with the shocks throughout the entire suspension movement.

My buddy also used the Ford towers with his fox 2.0s and right away ran into something he didn't expect. The fox shocks have a much more square and beefy shoulder at the top (and they're an actual 2" od, unlike the 46mm bilsteins) and would not fit the mounts. He needed to grind a little metal off the edges of the shocks' shoulders to make them work.

Ratcheting straps would have been a good way to go. I managed to rig something up were I could compress the shocks with my weight while cinching down on the strap. Hardest part is getting it to within 1/4" or so of the ideal length to line up the holes. And the valve at the top makes things more complicated as well. I did notice, as I probably said above, that the rear shocks were much easier to "work with" for mounting. It makes me wonder if the gas pressure was the same as the fronts, and the damping as well. Unfortunately I don't yet have a gauge to measure that kind of pressure.

I should call Bilstein though. They are only about 15-20 miles from where I live. I wonder, if I pulled of my shocks and ran them over there, could they check them out and verify the pressure and damping without tearing them apart. Maybe they'd do that as part of the warranty.

One odd thing about all these shocks. The rears actually have stickers on them indicating the pn and say "255/70". The front ones, which I bought earlier, have no such sticker on them. They just came with that blue "Bilstein" ring around the top. It would be funny, but also frustrating, if my fronts are actually some stiffer type they sent me on a goof-up. Darn though, the only way to know is either to have Bilstein test them, or for me to tear them all down and examine the shims.

Last edited by Patrick Morris; 02-06-2015 at 10:19 AM.. Reason: Removed the part about digressive valving. Doesn't apply.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:56 AM   #23
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

What you described regarding the spacing for the upper mount is why I didn't use that style. I still have one pair of those towers sitting here on the shelf. I purchased them when I was collecting parts for one of my other scouts. But decided to make the hoops instead when I bit the bullet and purchased a tube bender.

If I was in your shoes, I was call up Bilstein and discus with them what you have described here. Sounds like the rear shocks you received were valved at a lower rate than the fronts. Since they are still under warranty, they should be able to work something out with ya.
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The fleet
73 Scout II - 73 Beast SOA, Shackle Reversal. Several things being re-worked through out.
72 Scout II - Ole Yeller - About ready to roll around town.
74 Scout II - Barrel Rolled - Rest in peace
72 Scout II = SOLD
51 Studebaker pickup - A non running project. Slowly in the works
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:00 AM   #24
Patrick Morris
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

Yeah I'll call them. I think there is a guy named joel who is the go-to guy for these off-road shocks. He answered a question or two of mine about the 5100s here on this board, a couple of years ago, and I've run across posts from him on other boards as well, always with the user name "random thoughts racing". I'll call and see if I can talk to him about this.

Fwiw, it dawned on me this morning that I can measure the gas pressure. I forgot that my mtn bike suspension pump has a 0-300 psi gauge on it and is designed to thread onto and measure shrader valves. So I measures the front and rear shocks:

fronts: both showed 280 psi.

Rears: one was 225, the other was closer to 240 psi.

Definitely a significant difference between front and rear. I don't know how this really affects the damping. Probably not enough to account for the difference I'm noticing, but I will ask Bilstein about it anyway.

I bled a little gas out of the fronts, just for good measure. Now they are both just under 250 psi. It probably ought to be a little lower still. I know the recommended pressure is 180-220.
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:12 AM   #25
chico
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

Hey scooter whats the length of that shock? Here is the pics of my rear end. I would like to build something to hold the resevor in the back.
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File Type: jpg 6.jpg (50.1 KB, 141 views)
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:37 AM   #26
Patrick Morris
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

Wow, nice pics. Very thorough.

I see you don't have the factory skid plate around your tank. If I'd gotten shocks with reservoirs I would consider mounting them one over the other on the forward surface of the skid plate. It'd be a nice solid, out of harms way location. Without that option though, I don't know. Maybe build a bracket that hangs down from the x-member?
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:46 AM   #27
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

Thanks! I just kinda threw them on. I wanna run tubing of some kind up near the tub but thats in time. My Scout aint equiped to off road yet so I got time. The p.o changed the rear gear ratio and never the front so I need to fix that first. Ive been lookin for a frame cause the p.o againg fuged it all up and bent it up front. Rat turd welds on the spring mounts stuff like that. Then shock hoops for the front. Scooter is gonna help me with that tho...wink,wink.
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:01 AM   #28
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

Quote:
Originally Posted by chico View Post
thanks! I just kinda threw them on. I wanna run tubing of some kind up near the tub but thats in time. My Scout aint equiped to off road yet so I got time. The p.o changed the rear gear ratio and never the front so I need to fix that first. Ive been lookin for a frame cause the p.o againg fuged it all up and bent it up front. Rat turd welds on the spring mounts stuff like that. Then shock hoops for the front. Scooter is gonna help me with that tho...wink,wink.
We have good frames available and ready to go if interested.

I personally have been running a set of 7100's for some time now on the rear of my white Scout and couldn't agree more about not only the quality of the shock but the quality of the ride as well. For those figuring out how to mount the reservoirs I have the left reservoir mounted to the right shock and the right reservoir mounted to the left shock. If you look close enough you can see how the hoses crossed each other. Sorry about the quality of the picture that I attached as it was the best that I could find.

On a side note I know it was mentioned earlier in this thread about whether we sell these as it is frowned upon to link products we carry to other sites. I'm somewhat ok with this on the 7100's since we don't stock them but as a Bilstein dealer we can order these in for you as well.
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:33 AM   #29
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

Thanks for clearing that up for us Jeff. I know how you like to keep everything in house and honestly I didn't even think about you ordering them or price shopping these shocks as well. Kinda got excited!
On your 7100's are you running the same height? 8 in the rear, 10 up front? I know your Scout is sprung over and ours isn't. I'm just thinking when and if I do my spring over if another set of shocks is in my future.
Also ill give you a call on the frame situation.
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:23 AM   #30
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Default Re: My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

I'm using 10" travel in the rear and 14" in the front. From my research at the time these short body shocks were the longest travel shock that I could find with the shortest overall length.
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