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Old 07-28-2008, 07:10 AM   #1
Michael Mayben
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Default The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

I get emails all the time on this subject.

Typically..."if cost is no object, what components would you use to set up a modern heating/air conditioning system inna Scout?".

So I'm gonna list components I'd use...along with sources. This is not meant to endorse any one product or manufacturer/supplier, but serve as examples of bits and pieces that are readily available. And with poorboy engineering, all of this would work in either Scout 80, Scout 800, or Scout II apps.
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Old 07-31-2008, 09:57 AM   #2
pineneedle
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Default Re: The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

Michael,

this will be awesome. I, for one, really appreciate that you are doing this. It will make the project go much more smoothly that if I were trying to patch together my own plan, knowing little or nothing about a/c systems.

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Old 07-31-2008, 10:02 AM   #3
Michael Mayben
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Default Re: The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

Some folks here have much experience in dealing with mobile hvac systems, some only know how to turn on the blower. So let's begin with a list of system components we're gonna use in our dream system, then we'll go back and throw out some suggestions for the actual pieces. This will only incorporate a "txv" design (thermostaic expansion valve) and not a orifice tube/accumulator design. This system will run only r-134a as a refrigerant along with pag compressor oil specified by the compressor manufacturer. Here's what will be needed:

1) a control head/panel.

2) an hvac "module", this is a combo heat/ac unit incorporating a heater core and an ac evaporator unit in a single case with provision for air intake and discharge.

3) a "bulkhead" connection system for neatly routing the plumbing through the engine compartment bulkhead.

4) a compressor mount and drive system.

5) a compressor.

6) a basic dual pressure switch for system protection (some refer to this component as a "binary" switch which is a trademarked product name).

7) a receiver/drier.

8) a condenser.

9) associated "high side" and "low side" plumbing.

10) a basic cabin air distribution system.

This system will utilize all components mounted inna "conventional" location which will vary somewhat depending upon which vehicle body is selected. And we'll only consider a conventional, engine-driven radiator fan, with a proper fan unit and shroud, and an engine cooling system of correct capacity and performance. This is imperative since the addition of an ac system will increase heat exchange requirements significantly.

Same for the vehicle electrical system, we gotta have a good, stable power supply to make all this happen.

If the vehicle under consideration is an automatic transmission variation, then an external tranny cooler needs to be incorporated also at the same time due to the limited space available between the vehicle grille and the radiator onna Scout II. If it's a Scout 800 with an oem borg warner slushbox, then we need to consider a swapout regarding the oem tranny heat exchanger which did not include a separate unit internal in the radiator bottom tank.
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Last edited by Michael Mayben; 07-31-2008 at 10:23 AM..
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Old 08-13-2008, 06:19 PM   #4
Greg R
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Default Re: The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

Hey, I got me all them components in one neat litt'l package right here:
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:38 PM   #5
Craig
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Default Re: The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

Don't laugh, I have seen comcast vans with coleman units on top of there service vans. Note sure of the power source?

I think a/c is still a couple years away for me, but that won't keep me from following this thread

subcribed!!
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Old 08-13-2008, 10:10 PM   #6
Michael Mayben
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Default Re: The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

How about the quick-change aspect of that hi-tek winder unit??? Wonder how them tarp straps hold up to the ozone in corvallis?

This must be greg's service truck for keepin' the snakehandler's sanctuary cool at osu??
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Old 08-14-2008, 04:14 AM   #7
Greg R
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Default Re: The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

Yuppir, that's my "repair" dealy Bob after motor pool sayz the van is too old to fix the faktry a/c.
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Old 07-06-2009, 06:41 PM   #8
Julian537
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Default Re: The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

sanden sd508 709 tama seltec compressor fittings w/port:ebay motors (item 270303831247 end time jul-14-09 06:42:00 pdt)

Are these necessary for the switch over to the sendec compressor, or are there different fittings?

This seams like a good price, I was thinking of buying these.
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Old 07-06-2009, 08:01 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

Those egay fittings are not proper for use with barrier hose. At least the ones shown in the pic. Barrier hose must be used with r-134a.

Those fittings have been around for many years and are for use only with the old type (no longer "approved") refrigerant hose that used what we call "barbed" fittings. There were many patterns of "barbed" fittings back then. And that soft interior hose and the barb fittings could be used with worm gear hose clamps. There is no way that type hose system will contain r-134a.

Approved barrier hose uses a totally different type crimp system also, we refer to that as a "bubble crimp" and must be used with bubble crimp-type fittings.

We used that type juryrig stuff in the late 80's during prototyping for r-134a systems before the barrier hose type and it's companion fittings were finalized by sae spec. Again

we used to make those fittings up ourselves instead of having our model shop make the hoses for prototypes, we just used the atco r-12 fittings we needed for adaptation and then used aluminum "brazing" rod to install, didn't even tig 'em. We could crimp hose with die sets and a vise and make 'em on the fly as needed. At that same point, the actual service fittings for r-134a had not been finalized either so we had many different variations we had to use that came as "samples" from all the suppliers competing for our supply contacts.

Once aeroquip's fitting and service valve configuration was adopted by sae, everything locked in and was cast in stone. We used non-barrier hose at the time because the final product had still not been standardized in the industry.

The major manufacturer of this type product in the u.s. Market is atco in ferris, tx.
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:39 PM   #10
Julian537
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Default Re: The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

Michael,

what do you know about maxi frig refrigerant or freeze 12?
Will these work in my Scout II system?

maxi frig

freeze 12


What are the pros on using the senco/tandem compressor?
Other than weight savings?
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:03 PM   #11
Michael Mayben
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Default Re: The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

The so-called "refrigerants" you mentioned are snakeoil blends. I won't discuss that stuff. I can harangue for hours regarding then use of snakoil which is only fit for contaminating service equipment.

I was heavily involved in the development of many types of proposed "alternative" mobile refrigerants and there are very precise reasons why r-134a was selected to be the current refrigerant used in all mobile applications. Unlike the so-called "science" behind global warming, the development and selection for r-134a and the products needed to be able to use it was not drawn out of some politician's magic rabbit hat.

There are two refrigerants used in mobile air conditioning systems for passenger vehicles. R-12 which was phased out of use beginning in 1993 vehicle production, and r-134a which is the only refrigerant currently used in the mobile industry.

As for the two compressors you mentioned, the sanden and the diesel kiki/zexel/seltec/tama, they are both outstanding units but there are hundreds of variations of each of those swash plate compressors. Along with many different sizes (displacement). They are both completely interchangeable on a "cradle" mount as the mounting ear configurations are identical. But there are many variations in clutch dimensions, clutch types, and clutch overhang/gauge line.

My former employer was zexel usa and I was involved with development of that particular compressor, I was a field service engineer responsible for all customer technical service support which included Nissan, subaru, isuzu (light duty and heavy truck), freightliner, kenworth, and peterbuilt. So yes...I lean towards the seltec/tama/whatever. The primary reason is that compressor has a bolt-on cast iron manifold for hose connections which is far superior to the monolithic manifold section used in the sanden unit which is very prone to breaking off unless a hose fitting support is incorporated.

The seltec/tama unit was designed from clean sheet as an r-134a compressor for use only with pag lubricant. The sanden was/is a rehash of an r-12 compressor design and has undergone many internal materials changes because of that adaptation.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:02 PM   #12
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Default Re: The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

I recently did an a/c overhaul in my Chevy. This a/c forum was a big help lots of good people with good info....

automotive ac information forum - ackits.com


And this is the write up I did for the Chevy forum on my process. I know it's not an IH but most of the procedures for cleaning the system etc will apply. Plus there are a few lessons learned in there (having hoses made for your vehicle, using different oils, etc..) that might help someone avoid my mistakes and get an idea of some costs involved.

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...hp?tid/168431/
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:50 PM   #13
John Dever
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Default Re: The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

I have a stock a/c system in my traveler. The york compressor has started to leak from a plate opposite from the hose connections. I tightened the many bolts holding the plate on and the leak slowed but not stopped.
1. Which replacement compressor would do the best job for my set up?
IHOnly has a mounting plate so either york,sanden,or seltec May be used.
2. My system was desinged for r12, I have some new r12 and I've been led to believe that r12 will work better in my aplication. Is this correct?

3. If I go with something other than the york, what else do I need to change? Hoses? Adaptors?

Thanks
john
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:47 PM   #14
John Dever
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Default Re: The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

I have a stock a/c system in my traveler. The york compressor has started to leak from a plate opposite from the hose connections. I tightened the many bolts holding the plate on and the leak slowed but not stopped.
1. Which replacement compressor would do the best job for my set up?
IHOnly has a mounting plate so either york,sanden,or seltec May be used.
2. My system was desinged for r12, I have some new r12 and I've been led to believe that r12 will work better in my aplication. Is this correct?

3. If I go with something other than the york, what else do I need to change? Hoses? Adaptors?

Thanks
john
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:47 PM   #15
Michael Mayben
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Default Re: The Ultimate Scout HVAC System

My opinion john...

Keep the system on an r-12 diet since ya gotta stash (I do too!). That way you are looking at a simple compressor changeout, just like the old days.

The leak point you describe is a typical cci/york failure mode. Those units are "rebuildable" but that one does not have a positive lip seal (unless it was swapped off after sometime in 1990) and will always exhibit a refrigerant leak at the front seal since it's a "ceramic" design and not a positive lip seal.

New cci/york compressors are readily available from many sources, with or without a clutch ( I never re-use old clutches!). A new one will be shipped "dry", ya install whatever oil you are going to run that is compatible with the refrigerant of choice. If you stay with r-12, then that is plain old mineral-base refrigerant oil.

If you retrofit to r-134a, then you need to install a new compatible receiver/drier along with a high pressure cut-out switch to be in compliance with the retrofit "rules". That's in addition to the labeling requirement and the conversion charge fittings. And...I'd then install either the seltec//tama compressor or the sanden along with the conversion mount that we offer. That mount is far superior to any other conversion mount on the market.

I'd recommend ya install a new receiver/drier no matter what along with the fresh compressor, those are maintenance items with a best case replacement interval of 30k miles.
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