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Old 10-10-2017, 03:08 PM   #1
DF Sales&Marketing
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Default Old Cars and New Oils What to Use

First, a little background to make sure everyone is on the same page.

Most motor oils produced through the early 1930s had little or no additives. In the early 1950s, the so-called “MS” sequence engine oil designations were developed, including API (American Petroleum Institute) ML (motoring light), MM (motoring medium) or MS (motoring severe). These oils were finally defined in the late ‘50s by sequence tests that measured resistance to corrosion, wear and oxidation, as well as deposit control.

At the time, the original equipment manufacturers also had their house brands. There were concerns that these designations were too broad and made it difficult to tell whether or not an oil was really suitable for use in a particular engine.

Around 1970, the API’s “S” categories came into force to make it easier to identify the performance level of the oil. API started with SD for the then-current oils, moving through the alphabet to today’s SN oils. It designated earlier oils (SA, SB, and SC) as obsolete.

The question of the proper engine oil is more complex than you might think. It depends on how old the car is and the kinds of engines that were available when it was made. It seems like the “common” recommendation at that time was SAE 30 in the summer and SAE 10W or SAE 20W20 in the winter. (Please note that the OEM recommendations were made before the advent of multi-grade engine oil. Multi-grade oils provide much better protection against wear, especially at start-up.)

Things moved along without too much difficulty until the advent of lower zinc dialkyldithiophosphate products. This occurred around 2000 with the introduction of API SJ which limited the amount of phosphorous in the oil to a maximum of 0.10 percent by weight. The driver behind this was protection of catalytic converters. Phosphorous tended to poison the catalyst and make them non-functional. Prior to API SJ, phosphorous in engine oils were about 0.12 percent, and in some cases even higher.

After these oils hit the market, classic cars began to have wear problems. The specific problem being that vehicles with a flat tappet design needed a higher phosphorous level than the available SJ oils provided, in spite of the API guidance that each category of engine oil would be backwards compatible with earlier categories.

A flat tappet in the hydraulic valve lifter assembly makes contact with the cam lobe and can result in some significant wear. Enough phosphorous will minimize this problem, and the necessary level seems to be around 0.12 percent. API SJ oils were low in phosphorous, which most mechanics refer to as “zinc,” since that is the source of phosphorous in engine oils. There were rumblings from classic car groups concerning the change.

API SL and ILSAC (International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee) GF-3 retained the lower level of phosphorous, but API SM/ILSAC GF-4 upped the ante by lowering the phosphorous limit to 0.08 percent by weight. This is the point at which the classic car folks became really upset. They wanted an oil that would protect their prized cars, but that, for the most part, wasn’t available.

Many OEM engine folks believe the evidence is overwhelming that there is not enough ZDDP in GF-4 and GF-5 oils for older engines with flat tappet cams. Some classic car guys did not reach 200 miles on high-dollar rebuilds before rounding off a couple of cam lobes, and other suffered early mileage cam failures. So we know that a lack of sufficient ZDDP leads to wear problems in certain car engines. The bottom line for classic car enthusiasts is to make sure you are using an oil with the proper level of ZDDP.

ZDDP actually has several functions in engine oil besides Antiwear. It also performs as an Antioxidant and minimizes Corrosion through its surface reaction. The bottom line is that most engine oils with the API designations of SJ, SL, SM and SN contain a much lower amount of ZDDP in those oils to give adequate protection for engines which have flat tappet cams.

One of the exceptions is the SWEPCO 306 engine oil in 10W30, 15W40 and 20W50 weights which are listed as API SL/CI-4 and have a high zinc content. SWEPCO continues to produce those oils for customers who need the extra protection, both for early gasoline, diesel and race-proven requirements. Keep in mind however, that it DOES NOT MEET the requirements of low ZDDP content for equipment calling for API SM or SN. They do manufacture other products for the current, later model cars and trucks which meet all those needs.

IHPA has used and recommended SWEPCO 306 for over 10 years, and it is available for sale through their website, or pick-up at their location.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: Old Cars and New Oils What to Use

Hi Dick,
Thanks for the informative write up.
While you say it (306) has enough zinc and phos., how much in PPM for both?

Is the 306 available in gallons?
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Old Cars and New Oils What to Use

Hi Robert,

zinc 1700ppm
phos 1200ppm

Yes, the 306 is available in gallons - 6 gallons per case

Best regards
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Old 10-10-2017, 07:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: Old Cars and New Oils What to Use

Thanks for the ppm. I may switch my roadster over to 306. The normal sources for production oil have dried up. I'll get in touch with Jeff before the next oil change.
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Old 10-11-2017, 08:13 AM   #5
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Default Re: Old Cars and New Oils What to Use

Robert,

Thanks for your consideration, I am sure you will be pleased with the performance that the 306 gives you.

Dick
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Old Cars and New Oils What to Use

Well I'll just add that I'm a satisfied customer. I can not attest to engine wear as I have no metrics before or after. I will say I don't have the lifter tick I had on other brands; and my pressures are more consistent throughout the change interval. As an example: When using the celebrated Delo, towards 3,500 miles my idle oil pressure would drop to 10psi or just below that when the engine was fully warmed.

Since the switch to 306, my hot idle pressures have stayed towards 15-20 psi at 850 rpm with 4,500 miles on the clock. I don't do the 3K routine, I find the switch is fine around 4,500 miles. Maybe a lab report such as from Blackstone would tell if that is wise or not, but so far so good.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: Old Cars and New Oils What to Use

Hi Greg,

Nice to hear from you and see the results you are getting.

Thanks for the post and the good comments.

Dick
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:30 PM   #8
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Hey Dick, good to see you post now and then.
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:05 PM   #9
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Hi again Greg,

I post new topics when I feel that the current one has about run it's course. The previous "Keeping up with ATF" drew a lot of attention, and that is what in my mind putting out information is all about. With that said, I wanted to expound a little about the tie-in with International units and using the proper engine oil. I think it will go a long way as well as this kind of information is not normally known by most, including IH'rs.

As for grease, yes the 101 Moly Grease is a great product, it is probably one of my best selling greases (others are used for more industrial type applications). The difference between it and the 102 is that the 102 is the same as the 101 without the moly, it might be a little stiffer in cold weather, but if you keep it in an area out of the weather, like a garage, there should not be a problem with it. But to simplify things, the 101 will work in all your applications, therefore only need one grease. Both of them are listed as "non-melt" greases.

The Moly 101 is also available through IHPA- it is a favorite among off-roaders, including CV joints and chassis fittings for the "Rock-Crawlers."

Thanks again for the kudos, its always good to hear from you.

Dick
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Old 10-15-2017, 07:27 AM   #10
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Default Re: Old Cars and New Oils What to Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by DF Sales&Marketing View Post
Hi Robert,

zinc 1700ppm
phos 1200ppm

Yes, the 306 is available in gallons - 6 gallons per case

Best regards
Dick,
Is this the same SWEPCO located in Fort Worth? Also, is there a list of additional locations to purchase 306?

Thanks In Advance
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:24 AM   #11
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Default Re: Old Cars and New Oils What to Use

Oil Scout,

Yes, Southwestern Petroleum Corp (brand name SWEPCO) corporate office and manufacturing facility is located in Ft. Worth, TX. They have been in business since 1933.

SWEPCO products are represented by an Independent Sales Force across the U.S., and around the world in over 70 countries.

IHPA has been a customer of mine for over 10 years, (I have represented them for over 32 years), that's when they went to exclusively using and selling SWEPCO High Performance Lubricants. I have found that the IHPA on-line sales prices are very competitive with other companies and you do not have to purchase in full case quantities, they are my first recommendation. If you wish to have the contact information of a sales rep closest to you, send me a PM along with your location. Generally, that person would also recommend a retail outlet, as we do not usually sell in the retail market. I would more than likely have to get that information from our sales department, so it may take some time to do so.

Thank you for your interest in SWEPCO engine oil (and possibly other products as well)

Dick Floryanowich
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Old 10-16-2017, 09:25 AM   #12
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Default Re: Old Cars and New Oils What to Use

Dick,
Thank you for the quick answer. I was needing a quick fix on oil. I am usually on the phone with IHPA weekly ordering something or asking questions. Not a problem to purchase the 306 from them. Just seems odd that I can look out my office and see the SWEPCO office but I'm ordering their oil from CA. And the shipping... Anyway, all is good and thanks again for the quick response and the write up. Very informative.

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Old 10-16-2017, 12:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: Old Cars and New Oils What to Use

Oil Scout,

What a coincidence that you are in Ft Worth and can see our office from your window! You are in an area (as you know) that is rich in history with the Stockyards close by with cattle, and also with oil companies occupying most of Main Street.

Glad to hear that you will be trying our 306, it is a great product.

Best regards,

Dick Floryanowich
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