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Old 02-06-2018, 07:35 PM   #16
DKindley
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

I had it on jackstands. I disconnected the kick down linkage and shifter linkage. Set rpms to 1000 and put selector in high(3). I got under there and took the readings. I forgot to mention the best part. Moving the throttle pressure valve did nothing to increase pressure.
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Old 02-06-2018, 07:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Cripes! Well, I guess you know what's next. The VB needs some bench time.
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Haha yeah no doubt. I could pretend like I know what Iím looking for but really Iím just gonna start at the beginning of the vb tear down section. Then work step by stinkin step through again. Hopefully something jumps out at me. I really donít think itís an internal problem so at least I donít have to pull the tranny again. I do think Iíll tell the wife (Mrs Hayek too) that I need a new SO 1/4Ē drive ratchet to do the job right. She loves the Scout too so I should be good! Thanks again Scoutboy
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:14 PM   #19
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Whoa. Well, you're a lucky man in spite of the slush box woes. Any shmootz that wasn't removed from the passages, mismatched springs or check balls in the wrong places. There's a lot that can go wrong inside that damn brain.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

So I took the vb off and went over it again with a fine tooth comb. I did have the wrong spring from the shift kit on the governor pressure regulator valve so who knows. I air checked the clutch packs again and Iím hearing air from inside? How much of a leak is acceptable?
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:37 PM   #21
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Should be minimal. How'd the fluid and filter look and smell when you drained it? What type of fluid are you using?
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:15 PM   #22
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

The fluid looked fine, maybe a shade dark but definitely not dirty. No burnt smell. The filter had a few metal flakes that I think are from the new bushings breaking in? Iím using valvoline dex/merc. I bought Castrol transmax today when I got the new filter and gasket. Iím starting to get concerned more about the clutch packs because of the air leak. It held fine in 1st but it did slip in 2 and 3.
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:07 PM   #23
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

I had another thought about the clutch packs. The front clutch controls reverse and 3. The rear controls 1,2,3. Well I have a solid reverse and a solid 1. That covers both clutches so makes sense to me that the air leaking by the clutches must be ok. Am I just convincing myself not to pul the tranny again or does the logic work in your mind also?
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:10 PM   #24
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Dex/Merc is the right stuff. This could prove to be a tough nut to crack without a full unit autopsy. The more common and easier to cyber-diagnose failures tend to involve the complete loss of motion in one or more selector positions, with normal operation in the others. I just can't let go of the notion that this is a fluid pressure problem, though. Either too much, not enough, or within spec, but not happening at the right time. And fluid pressure is predominately controlled within the VB. Were you meticulous in your parts cleansing, especially with the VB...I mean to the point of being an anal retentive maniac in getting stuff clean? Are you sure you got all the check balls where they belong by size and location? I mean, you admit to getting one spring wrong. Isn't it possible that something else within the VB was assembled incorrectly? I'm just spitballing here. I've been inside these things up to my armpits a few times, but that by no means makes me an expert. I hate to say it, but I have an idea you'll be dropping this trans back out for another session on the bench before too much longer.
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Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500
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Mongo - '71 1210 Std Cab 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Trac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:41 PM   #25
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Your absolutely right that I could have jacked the vb up the first time. I took my time this time and checked every valve,spring and ball. I compared everything to both the Munroe book and shift kit directions. Iím confident that I got it right now. I may have had the throttle valve plug in backwards the first time but itís dialed in now. What do you think about the clutch pack situation. I know you have no crystal ball and canít fix everything on the inter web but it helps me to kick ideas around with someone who has more knowledge
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Old 02-11-2018, 07:49 AM   #26
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

I've been looking through Tom Hand's online guide to the TF727 during this time, and there just isn't any one thing jumping out at me that could be causing the symptoms you've noted, other than incorrect fluid pressure. Sure, there could be a problem with either of your clutch packs. If there is, you won't be doing anything about it while the trans is attached to the engine. When you had the VB halves apart, did you look them over carefully for cracks or damage in the passageways? Tell me more about this kit you installed. What brand is it? What modifications were required? Please be specific.
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Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500
Hooty - '74 SII - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x10.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/HFT 8k winch
Mongo - '71 1210 Std Cab 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Trac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:45 AM   #27
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Iím thinking the same thing about line pressure, fact is it was way high when I put a gauge on it. I was just doing some checks when I found the air leak in the clutch packs. Iíve read that the Teflon sealing rings can be harder to seal? Maybe Iíll bump my air pressure up and recheck. Iíll get the specs off the box when I get home but the shift kit came in the rebuild kit. Got it down the road from transparts warehouse in Redding. It wasnít real difficult to do. 1)Drilled a hole in wall of throttle pressure passageway
2) Took out ball from separator plate
3) Enlarged a few holes in separator plate
4) Replaced tp spring, converter pressure spring
5) Adjusted tp and line pressure screws per instructions
This time I did back the line pressure off quite a bit. I had it maxed before for stiffer shifts but it was within instruction specs.
I know Iím taking up your time but I appreciate your thoughts
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:07 AM   #28
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

You have two options at this point. You made some changes to the VB which may or may not have a noticeable effect on the issue. On one hand, you could slap everything back together, fill with fluid and see if the situation has improved. On the other hand, you've got the fluid drained already, so you could go ahead and drop the trans out to retrace ALL of your steps. ATF gets pretty spendy when you do multiple drains and fills, plus it makes a damn mess every time you do it. But, trans R/R and tear down/build up is a lot of work. I guess if I was in your shoes, I would probably opt for testing what I had in the hopes that I nailed it this time, but with the resolve to drop the thing down if it was still misbehaving. I don't really see a third choice.
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Favorite hobby...Driving Salma Hayek in my Scout

Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500
Hooty - '74 SII - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x10.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/HFT 8k winch
Mongo - '71 1210 Std Cab 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Trac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
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Old 02-11-2018, 11:45 AM   #29
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

Copy that, Thatís exactly where Iím at! Iím leaning heavy towards buttoning it back up and giving her hell. Itís kind of a gamble either way. If I go through the tranny again and it was the vb that would blow. Let me hit you with one other possibility- the governor. Could that little sucker jack up the line pressure enough to raise hell?
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Old 02-11-2018, 11:49 AM   #30
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Default Re: 727 upshift mystery

This is what I used
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-A727-...-/192011149212
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