IH PARTS AMERICA
Click Here!

Go Back   IH PARTS AMERICA > Tech Forums > Gas Engine Tech
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Photo Gallery IH Store Home

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-23-2010, 07:38 AM   #61
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 71
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

You win this time dude!

That's better than a xmas bonus and two ex-wives!!!! And ya pay no dam taxes on this chunka luv!
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 08:37 AM   #62
Rusty Scout
Senior Member
 
Rusty Scout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Member Number: 644
Location: Marin County USA
Posts: 239
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

In the midst of my 304 rebuild and about to install the oil pump that my engine builder redid with the melling oil pump repair kit part number: k71e

this kit came with a new spring and washer. I am assuming this pump is good to go as is now without shimming the spring. Has anyone found the need to try to improve the performance of a pump using the k71e kit?

Fyi this is for a 1975 IH 150 4x4 pickup.
Rusty Scout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 08:44 AM   #63
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 71
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty Scout View Post
in the midst of my 304 rebuild and about to install the oil pump that my engine builder redid with the melling oil pump repair kit part number: k71e

this kit came with a new spring and washer. I am assuming this pump is good to go as is now without shimming the spring. Has anyone found the need to try to improve the performance of a pump using the k71e kit?

Fyi this is for a 1975 IH 150 4x4 pickup.
Does the free length of the melling-supplied replacement spring match the free-length spec that has been posted? The washer that is included simply serves as a "stop" for the spring to keep it from bearing directly on the cotter pin.

If the spring length is the same, then adding an additional shim won't hurt anything and "should" boost final oil pressure by numbers real close to what has been described. I'd not go any additional pre-load than what has been discussed.
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 03:41 PM   #64
Rusty Scout
Senior Member
 
Rusty Scout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Member Number: 644
Location: Marin County USA
Posts: 239
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

IH oil pump # 448663-c1 old spring length was 2.210.

The melling k71e kit spring is 2.223 long and the shim was .041 thick x .663 od.

I found some .063 thick x .631 od washers.

I think I am going to add 2 of the .063 washers to the .041 existing shim for a total shim thickness of .167 to match Jeff's shim thickness of .170 as reported early on in this thread by mr. Mayben.
Rusty Scout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 04:59 PM   #65
Robert Kenney
IHPA Tech Moderator
 
Robert Kenney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Member Number: 543
Location: So Cal
Age: 49
Posts: 3,301
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty Scout View Post
I think I am going to add 2 of the .063 washers to the .041 existing shim for a total shim thickness of .167 to match Jeff's shim thickness of .170 as reported early on in this thread by mr. Mayben.
I do not recommend running 65 psi on a stock engine. It is simply not necessary.

Rule is 10 psi per 1000 rpm. 4500 = 45 psi. 50-55 is what I consider a good peak oil pressure to shoot for. That is what I set up every sv/ IH 4 cylinder at.

Add 1 .063 washer. The existing washer that is between the spring and cotter pin is not considered an increase but stock.
Cotter pin , washer, spring, and plunger in that order is stock.
__________________
Robert Kenney

“Don't lift until the fear of death over comes the fear of speed.” Author Unknown
Robert Kenney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 07:14 PM   #66
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 71
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert kenney View Post
I do not recommend running 65 psi on a stock engine. It is simply not necessary.

Rule is 10 psi per 1000 rpm. 4500 = 45 psi. 50-55 is what I consider a good peak oil pressure to shoot for. That is what I set up every sv/ IH 4 cylinder at.

Add 1 .063 washer. The existing washer that is between the spring and cotter pin is not considered an increase but stock.
Cotter pin , washer, spring, and plunger in that order is stock.
I concur...these are medium pressure high volume lube systems designed into these motors. I know we say this over and over,...but they are not chryfordrolets and we can't treat 'em like one!
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 10:29 PM   #67
Rusty Scout
Senior Member
 
Rusty Scout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Member Number: 644
Location: Marin County USA
Posts: 239
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

Just to be crystal clear Robert is saying to add one .063 washer to the stock .041 washer for a slight increase in this case. Sorry I am a little slow due to high levels of rust inhalation.

Last edited by Rusty Scout; 03-16-2010 at 10:50 PM..
Rusty Scout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 06:51 AM   #68
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 71
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty Scout View Post
just to be crystal clear Robert is saying to add one .063 washer to the stock .041 washer for a slight increase in this case. Sorry I am a little slow due to high levels of rust inhalation.
Yes!

Don't mix carb cleaner vapor with rustdust, that makes the rust look like the offspring of breedin' lava lamps.
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 07:25 AM   #69
Scoutboy74
Moderator
 
Scoutboy74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Member Number: 453
Location: Daze Crick, Jefferson
Posts: 4,013
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael mayben View Post
yes!

Don't mix carb cleaner vapor with rustdust, that makes the rust look like the offspring of breedin' lava lamps.
Cuda yoozd this warning last night. Daggum. I had monster-sized chickens wanderin arount in the shop at one point. I wuz defnlee in the spirit world a-hole!
__________________
Favorite hobby...Driving Salma Hayek in my Scout

Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500
Hooty - '74 SII - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x10.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/HFT 8k winch
Mongo - '71 1210 Std Cab 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Trac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
Scoutboy74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 07:30 AM   #70
Robert Kenney
IHPA Tech Moderator
 
Robert Kenney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Member Number: 543
Location: So Cal
Age: 49
Posts: 3,301
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

Hey trevor!!
I believe you wazz in the a-hole but waz it sailor jerry's a-hole rather than a rust and carby cleaner a-hole?
__________________
Robert Kenney

“Don't lift until the fear of death over comes the fear of speed.” Author Unknown
Robert Kenney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 05:08 PM   #71
Scoutboy74
Moderator
 
Scoutboy74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Member Number: 453
Location: Daze Crick, Jefferson
Posts: 4,013
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

Wadda you got? Sum kinda peepin' Tom webcam hid out in my dam gee-rodg? Next time I'll throw sum clothes on.
__________________
Favorite hobby...Driving Salma Hayek in my Scout

Coal Trickle - '99 Dodge Ram 2500 Q-Cab SWB 4x4 - 5.9L 24V CTD/NV4500
Hooty - '74 SII - 392/TF727/D20/3.73 D44's/Spartan FA/Krac-lok RA/RC 4" SUA/34x10.5 TSLs/33g Fuel/HFT 8k winch
Mongo - '71 1210 Std Cab 2WD - 345/TF727/RA17 D60 4.10 Trac-lok - "Mongo love candy! Duh, huh, huh!"
Scoutboy74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 02:10 PM   #72
Oakland_Jack
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Member Number: 1154
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 51
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

Hello mr. Mayben,

thank you for this excellent thread. I'm curious of your comment regarding oil filters in post #3:

"without knowing what oil filter ya typically run, as compared to any of the common fram part numbers,...a wix, hastings, baldwin, or purolator (pure one version only) will give a nominal 10psi+ increase in hot pressure also at say 2200rpm and higher.

All those numbers are found with 15w-40, straight 40, or 20w-50 oil and a fresh oil filter and observed continuously on my beater 392 for the last ten years. And when the hot oil pressure "drops" ten psi aver about 3500 miles, I know that is a signal to change the filter!"

2 questions:
- why does oil pressure drop with an aging filter (I would have guessed the reverse but don't pretend to know much)?
- why does filter type affect oil pressure?

Thank you for the oil pressure gospel!

-jack
Oakland_Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 06:17 PM   #73
towpainter3
Senior Member
 
towpainter3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Member Number: 549
Location: Ringgold Ga.
Age: 49
Posts: 319
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

I know you asked m/m this question, but look at the oil system I n question. The filter is before any type of pressure sensing device. As the carbon and dirt build up in the media of the filter pressure and flow decrease. Once it reaches critical blockage the bypass valve in the filter is supposed to take over and let it go, but going that far on an oil filter would be terrible. Might as well get bearins when you get a new filter!!
Question 2, this is my unejemekated answer. The construction and type of media along with the tyoe and quality of the bypass system means everything, cheap is cheap, wix is good!!! Baldwin and purolator also make good filters.
Actually it all comes down to oil flow and filtration,good filters flow and filter. Cheap filters either flow or filter not both. Such as with a fram. Cut one open compared to a wix and you'll see whats goin on.

Hope this helps! Im sure m/m will get anything I left out
__________________
gotta new wife,got an xmas bonus,and the scout is in the first line of the prenup!!!!
towpainter3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 07:47 PM   #74
Oakland_Jack
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Member Number: 1154
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 51
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

Doh! I get it, the gauge is downstream of my cheap clogged filter.

Thank you, I now see the light.
Oakland_Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2011, 11:09 AM   #75
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
 
Michael Mayben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member Number: 10
Location: Leaburg, Orygone
Age: 71
Posts: 7,156
Default Re: Oil Pump Relief Valve Shimming

Towpainter is correct in his analysis of the oil filter situation.

The main differences in all the variations of filter elements lies with the design of the filtration media and it's conformed shape and actual surface dimension (in square inches).

Many filters simply use a very minimal amount of media that has a relatively large flow rate. The best filters use much more actual media and the flow-through characteristics are much smaller.
__________________
Are yawl ready??? If not here's some training ya might need to prepare:

http://vimeo.com/8149690
Michael Mayben is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:37 PM.