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Old 12-04-2008, 05:05 PM   #106
wmnan
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

Hi Mike, I'm a new member. I will give you a short and sweet. I have been away from working on cars for quite some time and I am restoring a 72 Scout II. The first thing I want to do is get it running like a top before I spend to much money in the body. I resently bought a carb on e-bay. I was told it came off a 74 Scout II with a 304. I have a 72 Scout II with a 304. I am guessing that it should be golden. I have gathered from earlier stings that the carb I bought is a 2210c. It appears to be missing the lever and assembly for the throttle lever opperated bowl valve. I am replacing a motorcraft carb that I am unable to find a rebuild kit for. Is this a wise decision? It sounds like the 2210c is a bit of a problem carb.
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Old 12-04-2008, 05:21 PM   #107
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

Ok maybe I can get the attachement to go this time.
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Old 12-04-2008, 05:23 PM   #108
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

Welcome to the krew here wmnan! You are at the right place for help in bringing the old iron back to life!

First off...the motorcraft carb. Those have always been a popular "conversion" carb since they are dirt cheep in boneyards, and dirt cheep to "repair" (sometimes!). But there are no tuning parts for 'em, the only reason they work inna halfazz manner onna 304/345 is that the basic fuel requirements for the Ford 289/302 that most of 'em come from are very similar to a 304/345 IH motor. I have no problem getting kits for those, but in my opinion, they are a total waste onna IH motor!

Your '72 sii should have come with a Holley 2300 modular carb. That is the perfect mixer for that motor and all versions after that! But they were a bit costly to puchase on the oem side, and the Holley 22xx carb was developed strictly as an emissions carb for "throwaway", not really meant to ever be serviced during longterm use.

But...ya now have what ya have, and hopefully we can make it work for ya. But I'm sure you've already gone through the many threads here and realize they can be a real bitch to deal with...even for me!

So here's what we need ta help ya out...

Take several well-focused shots of the carb on all four sides. Then do the same of the "top" of your engine so I can see the detail. That way we know what ya got upfront and we can advise as to all areas that might need attention.

In fact, why don't ya start a new thread just for your issue so we can keep your stuff straight? No doubt we'll reference ya to other threads when appropriate, but that way we can remain specific to your individual project and not muddy the waters.

Some of those 22xx carbs did not use the "bowl vent" lever system, even though the top casting has the basics for allowing that. If yours is machined for all the parts for a lever-operated bowl vent, then I'm sure we can come up with the stuff you need to make it operational is desired. But first let's get it running decent and then we can home in on the details like that! That way you are not out any cash spent on stuff that doesn't directly impact getting the rig running now. It's always possible that ebay carbs end up being tossed in the scrap pile or used for parts donors!

Back to the motorcraft...if you wanna pursue making it whole, then post the numbers on the metallic tag that hopefully is under one of the bowl screws. I'll see what I can find. Those carbs are fairly simple to deal with, after all, they were actually a "cheepened" version of a Holley carb to begin with (joint venture deal). Basically a cross between a 22xx with some 2300-like design elements thrown in.
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Old 12-04-2008, 05:41 PM   #109
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

Will do as soon as I can figure out where to go to start a new one, thanks.
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Old 12-04-2008, 05:51 PM   #110
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmnan View Post
will do as soon as I can figure out where to go to start a new one, thanks.
Under the "carb tech" forum header, you will see a button up at the top that says "new thread". Click on that and it will open a new thread. Type in your title, and then post your issue.

Then click "sumit reply" just like ya did here. The re-direct May take a bit longer than you are used to as the new thread is accepted, but it will work just fine. Then ya have your own!
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Old 12-05-2008, 01:24 PM   #111
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

I got the attachments to load on the new thread. Thanks for the help. Let me know if you need more photos.
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Old 02-15-2009, 02:45 PM   #112
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

Quote" however, ya really need to set up a shop-type vacuum gauge on the motor so ya can see what's going on when the idle "speed" becomes erratic. That is a sure sign of a vacuum leak. And the first place I'd suspect is the "hic" valve (hot idle compensation) on the carb main body if it's equipped with that device" this sounds just like my issue, 7309 a carb but its idle is sparratic. Plus my egr valve is just setting there not hooked up at all. Same type of virus ive been reading with all po vehicles how can I correctly seal the hic valve and what can I do with my egr valve? When we rebuilt this carb we just put the hic valve back in and tightened the bolts.
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Old 02-15-2009, 04:48 PM   #113
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

The "correct" way to over-ride the egr valve is to remove it completely. Then use a "blocker plate" kit (included bolts and gasket) such as supplied by ihon here:

egr block off plate for IH engine - IH Parts America Scout

Simply removing the vacuum source from the valve will prevent it's actuation...but if the egr valve diaphragm leaks...or if the pintle hangs open (very common), then that is a major manifold vacuum leak point.

If this rig is not used on the street and the egr is "overridden (again...a non-street application)", then the hic valve in the Holley 22xx carb May also be disabled. However, if the bimetal-control valve itself is properly sealed using the new seal supplied in a carb kit, then it will most likely never actually "open and induce a "metered" vacuum leak.

If you want to totally disable the functionality of the hic system, then remove the parts and carefully drive a lead shot of the appropriate size into the orfice. Do not use rtv anywhere close to the fuel system for any engine!!!

That carb has several locations on it where lead seals were pushed in and staked at the point of manufacture.
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Old 02-15-2009, 06:02 PM   #114
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

[quote=michael mayben;10883]the "correct" way to over-ride the egr valve is to remove it completely. Then use a "blocker plate" kit (included bolts and gasket) such as supplied by ihon . However, if the bimetal-control valve itself is properly sealed using the new seal supplied in a carb kit, then it will most likely never actually "open and induce a "metered" vacuum leak.

If you want to totally disable the functionality of the hic system, then remove the parts and carefully drive a lead shot of the appropriate size into the orfice. Do not use rtv anywhere close to the fuel system for any engine!!!

Well for some odd reason my rebuild kit didnt come with a new seal or a new power valve for that matter I just thuroughly cleaned the old one and put it back in. I can make a plate and gasket to block the egr no problem it doesnt seem to be leaking at all but I agree with just removing it completely. Our state has no on off road law preventing us from doing any of those mods I see you call "off-road" so that should not be a problem. Can I get just that little rectange gasket anywhere? Or do I just make one out of thin gasket material? Thanks Mike for all your help. I wish I could just download your brain and print it all out and publish a book for myself lol.
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:26 AM   #115
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

The thin sheet metal "cover plate" for the hic item never had a gasket, it won't "seal" the port at all as the "intake" point for the valve when it actuates is within the carb body, ...trace out that circuit with compressed air or carb cleaner. The cover just retains the actual valve element in position over the port.

The seal for the hic is/was a very thin composite cork ring that fits down in the counterbore for the valve pintle. The round hole where that seal fits is what ya need to plug off to prevent a vacuum leak if the valve itself is gonna be removed.

You got the "idea" in my subliminal message about "off road" mods!!!! But in reality , the "emissions" schnizz izza federal thang...always has been.
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:25 PM   #116
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

Well I went to the parts yard today and pulled every vaccuum line and t and egr valve and another 7309a carb and anything else I could think of put all my vac lines back to original placement even the one that goes to the air cleaner. Seems to run better but now I have a dead spot in the carb. Everytime I think ive fixed something another issue pops up. The extra carb is just for a spare to rebuild because I know there getting hard to find. So now I guess I just have to figure out the dead spot and work from there. I power timed it and it seemed I had advanced a bit far. Using your tuning specs on the carb, it seems like my screws are out too far but it seems to be running ok that way. Man I wished I lived closer so I could just say here it is bill me when its ready to pick up lol. Back to the drawing board I guess for now.
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:15 PM   #117
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

Any and all "settings" we May ever suggest in these threads are only baselines that are proven to work on our own stuff.

Ignition systems and carburetion systems are adjustable so that fine tuning can be accomplished, that was even the case with "locked down" emissions stuff, a trained mechanic could diddle with the stuff if proper tooling was available and a set procedure was followed...such as the "propane enrichment" process which was at it's height of use during the era your vehicle was produced.

And I keep repeating around here...the 22xx series carbs are extremely difficult to deal with unless new! These are not carbs that were ever designed to be "serviced" in the real world...and to think that you can set one up perfectly 35 years later is simply not a reasonable assumption! I screw with 'em for hours at times to make 'em play nice.

Move the accel pump actuator to the "quickest/longest duration" slot, and bend the link as needed to make it give a shot even if the throttle arm is moved imperceptibly. Screw the specifications in any "book" or carb kit spec sheet! Worthless for these carbs!

And if the power valve actuator and the power valve circuit itself is not functioning perfectly, then these carbs are nothing but an unmetered hole for gasoline to dribble through...I can't be any more emphatic about that. In working with these carbs...maybe one in ten has a power valve actuator which is functional when it needs to operate. Without that, ya ain't got shit.

How do ya test it? Check post #4 in this thread:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com...ac-thread.html
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:41 PM   #118
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

I have a pic of my current carb, im using the first slot and its bent so as soon as the pedal moves its opening the acc pump. If I buy new would you recommend a 350 or 500 cfm center hung Holley for a replacement? Maybe ill just buy a new one and be done with it. It had a Holley 8007 390 cfm 4 bbl on it when I got it, I think I can get enough out of it to come close to buying a new carb plus my 2 other 7309a's trying to take what I have and turn it into what I want without being a ton out of pocket.
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:52 PM   #119
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

Do the research in this forum, use only the Holley p/n 0-7448 for your application, that is the 350cfm version though the "cfm" rating don't mean shit...it's how the internal circuitry is calibrated that counts.

I stated many times in this sub-forum, the 0-4412 500cfm version of the same basic carb series is not suitable for any IH 266/304/345 no matter how ya try and work it over inside...and no advantage performance-wise if ya could make it work in some fashion. I have four of those in my personal collection now...if they were 7448 list, I would not have had 'em 24 hours, we gotta waiting list for fresh used ones!
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:39 PM   #120
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Default Re: Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael mayben View Post
do the research in this forum, use only the Holley p/n 0-7448 for your application, that is the 350cfm version though the "cfm" rating don't mean shit...it's how the internal circuitry is calibrated that counts.

I stated many times in this sub-forum, the 0-4412 500cfm version of the same basic carb series is not suitable for any IH 266/304/345 no matter how ya try and work it over inside...and no advantage performance-wise if ya could make it work in some fashion. I have four of those in my personal collection now...if they were 7448 list, I would not have had 'em 24 hours, we gotta waiting list for fresh used ones!
Sry I asked at all. Sometimes trying to decipher these posts is like trying to find a needle in a stack of needles.
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