Oil Capacity of 345 v8 needed
- Thread starter hugger94
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Scoutboy74
Moderator
It's always a good idea to include more specific vehicle data whenever posting questions of this nature. Fluid capacity is often vehicle specific. The reference to running one quart over-full pertains specifically to IH engines in Scout vehicles with the front axle clearing, double sump oil pan. This "work around" was detailed in a service bulletin released by IH in response to oil starvation issues in Scout engines when operated at sustained cruising rpms. This issue was not a concern with any other IH vehicles, however it doesn't hurt anything to run any IH sv or I-4 engine one quart over full.
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
As scoutboy mentions there are many variations of the sv engine used across the entire spectrum of products that were produced in all divisions of ihc.
In the case of your loadstar, if the engine and peripherals are original, it has two distinct differences regarding the lubrication system.
1) while it uses a spin-on type oil filter that bolts to the block in the same manner as any Scout or pickall, it is somewhat different in that it mounts the filter can in a straight up and down orientation. Due to vehicle component interference on non-loadstar apps, it's not possible to use that filter system without some vehicle modifications in most cases.
Also, the loadstar filter is approximately twice the overall length as the common spin-on filter used in light duty vehicles and is roughly two quarts oil capacity instead of the more common one quart capacity.
2) the loadstar oil pan is significantly different compared to either a Scout II or a pickall pan. Depending upon the actual medium duty truck the engine is in, it could have a front sump oil pan, or a rear sump oil pan. And either of those pans hold approximately four additional quarts of oil as compared to either Scout II or pickall. Consequently, the oil dip stick is calibrated only for the much deeper/higher capacity oil pan on the loadstar.
Front sump pans (most common) have the dipstick mounted in the front of the block. Rear sump pans have the dipstick mounted through a hole in the side of the pan, similar to the pan used on a Scout II, and the hole in the front of the block for the dipstick tube has plug pressed in to blank the hole.
Until you verify oil capacity by actually adding oil until the "full" tick Mark is reached on the stick, there is no definitive answer to your question because we don't know which oil pan your engine is running! There appropriate medium duty service manual is no help in this regard since all sv engines could have had so many different oil pans, filter systems, etc, installed it's impossible to give a "generic" fill. However, that information would have been contained in the owner's guide for your 1700.
I have pictures comparing the loadstar oil pans and filter sets with similar items used in pickalls. But dam if I can locate on the hd! When I finally run across 'em, I'll post, the loadstar pan is significantly greater capacity.
Right now, for an oil and filter change, and if you are using the double length filter, I'd dump in 8 quarts and then crank the motor to pressurize and leak check, then shut it down, and add additional oil until ya hit the stick Mark.
In the case of your loadstar, if the engine and peripherals are original, it has two distinct differences regarding the lubrication system.
1) while it uses a spin-on type oil filter that bolts to the block in the same manner as any Scout or pickall, it is somewhat different in that it mounts the filter can in a straight up and down orientation. Due to vehicle component interference on non-loadstar apps, it's not possible to use that filter system without some vehicle modifications in most cases.
Also, the loadstar filter is approximately twice the overall length as the common spin-on filter used in light duty vehicles and is roughly two quarts oil capacity instead of the more common one quart capacity.
2) the loadstar oil pan is significantly different compared to either a Scout II or a pickall pan. Depending upon the actual medium duty truck the engine is in, it could have a front sump oil pan, or a rear sump oil pan. And either of those pans hold approximately four additional quarts of oil as compared to either Scout II or pickall. Consequently, the oil dip stick is calibrated only for the much deeper/higher capacity oil pan on the loadstar.
Front sump pans (most common) have the dipstick mounted in the front of the block. Rear sump pans have the dipstick mounted through a hole in the side of the pan, similar to the pan used on a Scout II, and the hole in the front of the block for the dipstick tube has plug pressed in to blank the hole.
Until you verify oil capacity by actually adding oil until the "full" tick Mark is reached on the stick, there is no definitive answer to your question because we don't know which oil pan your engine is running! There appropriate medium duty service manual is no help in this regard since all sv engines could have had so many different oil pans, filter systems, etc, installed it's impossible to give a "generic" fill. However, that information would have been contained in the owner's guide for your 1700.
I have pictures comparing the loadstar oil pans and filter sets with similar items used in pickalls. But dam if I can locate on the hd! When I finally run across 'em, I'll post, the loadstar pan is significantly greater capacity.
Right now, for an oil and filter change, and if you are using the double length filter, I'd dump in 8 quarts and then crank the motor to pressurize and leak check, then shut it down, and add additional oil until ya hit the stick Mark.
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Found the pics!
Credit for these shots goes to my guud buddy and fellow ihon member ccctrumpet, this is stuff from his loadstar he's brought back to life over the last year.
First off, a comparison of the two pans, on the left is a pan for a 345/392 as used in a Travelall (front sump). Pan on the right is for the loadstar 345.
Credit for these shots goes to my guud buddy and fellow ihon member ccctrumpet, this is stuff from his loadstar he's brought back to life over the last year.
First off, a comparison of the two pans, on the left is a pan for a 345/392 as used in a Travelall (front sump). Pan on the right is for the loadstar 345.
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Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
And this is the loadstar/345 oil pump and float.
I know you have no way of comparing these items, but the pickup on this oil pump has an "extension" segment on the float so that it is lowered into the pan as compared to a "shallow" pan on a pickall. In actual setup, the float screen sits about 1" above the flat bottom of the oil sump so that it is always submerged.
In my notes I found, curt tells me his owner's manual for this vehicle shows an oil capacity of nine quarts. But be sure to verify that using the tick Mark on your oil stick.
Notice the brake backing plate peeking out of the pic in the background! Looks just like yours! I'd forgotten that curt had to deal with the brakes on this farm truck just as you are doing. I "think" this is the truck he ended up having white post restorations install a stainless sleeve in the master cylinder to restore it. He's got several IH vehicles , I can;t keep up with all that has been done/needs to be done to each one! In fact, I'm completing the setup on a d70 dodge dually axle that I'm shipping him that is going under a '64 travelette that has had the frame stretched and service fenders installed.
Curt is on tour right now with the u.s. Air force band and I can't jaw with him, when he gets home we can pry more details out of him about the pan and the brakes!
I know you have no way of comparing these items, but the pickup on this oil pump has an "extension" segment on the float so that it is lowered into the pan as compared to a "shallow" pan on a pickall. In actual setup, the float screen sits about 1" above the flat bottom of the oil sump so that it is always submerged.
In my notes I found, curt tells me his owner's manual for this vehicle shows an oil capacity of nine quarts. But be sure to verify that using the tick Mark on your oil stick.
Notice the brake backing plate peeking out of the pic in the background! Looks just like yours! I'd forgotten that curt had to deal with the brakes on this farm truck just as you are doing. I "think" this is the truck he ended up having white post restorations install a stainless sleeve in the master cylinder to restore it. He's got several IH vehicles , I can;t keep up with all that has been done/needs to be done to each one! In fact, I'm completing the setup on a d70 dodge dually axle that I'm shipping him that is going under a '64 travelette that has had the frame stretched and service fenders installed.
Curt is on tour right now with the u.s. Air force band and I can't jaw with him, when he gets home we can pry more details out of him about the pan and the brakes!
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Michael,
your pictures are right on. The pan is a front sump with the dipstick on the passenger front corner of the engine. It had a wix 51797 filter on it which I replaced it with the same #. I filled the filter with oil (approx. 2 qts) then put the remainder of that gallon and another gallon of oil in the engine. So I put two gallons of oil in and ran it for a few minutes to get the oil pressure up to normal, checked for leaks, etc., checked to dipstick which showed the oil level as full. I even waited overnight to make sure everything had a chance to drain down. Checking this morning again it still shows full. I guess this one holds 8 qt.
Yes, your last picture does show a good view of the cam adjuster. The picture is a lot cleaner than mine, not rusty.
Hugger94
your pictures are right on. The pan is a front sump with the dipstick on the passenger front corner of the engine. It had a wix 51797 filter on it which I replaced it with the same #. I filled the filter with oil (approx. 2 qts) then put the remainder of that gallon and another gallon of oil in the engine. So I put two gallons of oil in and ran it for a few minutes to get the oil pressure up to normal, checked for leaks, etc., checked to dipstick which showed the oil level as full. I even waited overnight to make sure everything had a chance to drain down. Checking this morning again it still shows full. I guess this one holds 8 qt.
Yes, your last picture does show a good view of the cam adjuster. The picture is a lot cleaner than mine, not rusty.
Hugger94
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Great!
It's really kool ya posted this question as that brings up an opportunity to verify this type of information and reinforces the point of "they are not all the same"!!
Wanna see a front sump oil pan onna sv (266/304/345/392) motor in a truck? This one was fabbed to the tune of over $500 (1988 dollars by the way) which includes a dual header, remote mount oil filter assembly mounted to the inner fender. Total oil volume is 11 quarts with both filters swapped. This is a total waste and adds nothing but bling to a fresh-built motor. Definitely a case of fixxin' what ain't broke and another way to simply soak a customer who buys into the bling thing!
And yes...the dam drain plug area leaks where the bung was welded in!!!! So to fix that, the pan will have to come off!!! The shop that did this work back in '88 is still open up in portland. I have all the work orders regarding this work. Someday I'll have some fun with this and drive up to the shop door and ask for the owner..."Mike". If he's still alive, I'll let him know I got some warranty work on this engine build he did, it's got less than 5k miles on it since the more than $6k was spent for this blingmotor!
It's really kool ya posted this question as that brings up an opportunity to verify this type of information and reinforces the point of "they are not all the same"!!
Wanna see a front sump oil pan onna sv (266/304/345/392) motor in a truck? This one was fabbed to the tune of over $500 (1988 dollars by the way) which includes a dual header, remote mount oil filter assembly mounted to the inner fender. Total oil volume is 11 quarts with both filters swapped. This is a total waste and adds nothing but bling to a fresh-built motor. Definitely a case of fixxin' what ain't broke and another way to simply soak a customer who buys into the bling thing!
And yes...the dam drain plug area leaks where the bung was welded in!!!! So to fix that, the pan will have to come off!!! The shop that did this work back in '88 is still open up in portland. I have all the work orders regarding this work. Someday I'll have some fun with this and drive up to the shop door and ask for the owner..."Mike". If he's still alive, I'll let him know I got some warranty work on this engine build he did, it's got less than 5k miles on it since the more than $6k was spent for this blingmotor!
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The oil pan on my loadstar has a front and rear sump...and no dipstick. The spin on filter is short and mounted on the front left side of the engine. Judging by the depth of the two sumps it looks like it could easily hold eight quarts. We just got it so it might even be over filled as it spits oil out the uncovered dipstick tube.
Any help would be appreciated.
Any help would be appreciated.
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
The collective IH hive 
lol recommends 7 quarts (1 over full) to alleviate the commonly occurring oil starvation with the double sump pans.
The factory recommends the 7 qt capacity as the correct way to fix high speed oil starvation also.
The oil spraying out the dipstick is another issue completely.
lol recommends 7 quarts (1 over full) to alleviate the commonly occurring oil starvation with the double sump pans. The factory recommends the 7 qt capacity as the correct way to fix high speed oil starvation also.
The oil spraying out the dipstick is another issue completely.
Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
It's entirely possible that the entire engine in the loadstar has been swapped out for a variation as used in a Scout II.
Is there no fitting on the driver side of the oil pan for a dipstick?
If you have the "front" mounted dipstick on the engine with an oil pan that has a "short" capacity in the front sump, then that is not a correct item. And if the dipstick hole in the front of the engine block is open, then that tells me it's a swap-around kind of deal. A front-mount dipstick won't work with a short sump Scout II oil pan.
Hard Rock Miner
New member
Hello all,
I have a '78 Scout II 345 V8. When I first start the engine oil pressure seems to be working at correct pressure. It still has the factory gage. When it warms up after driving it around, the needle is below L at idle and I can hear a very faint knock as the engine idles. I have switched to Rotella 15w40 and am using a Wix filter which only seemed to delay the low pressure reading and knocking a little. I put 6 qt.'s of said oil in, but am now wondering if I need more oil? Its oil pan does not resemble either of those posted previously by Michael Mayben.
It has this type of pan: http://www.ihpartsamerica.com/store/NOS-455518C2.html
I have a '78 Scout II 345 V8. When I first start the engine oil pressure seems to be working at correct pressure. It still has the factory gage. When it warms up after driving it around, the needle is below L at idle and I can hear a very faint knock as the engine idles. I have switched to Rotella 15w40 and am using a Wix filter which only seemed to delay the low pressure reading and knocking a little. I put 6 qt.'s of said oil in, but am now wondering if I need more oil? Its oil pan does not resemble either of those posted previously by Michael Mayben.
It has this type of pan: http://www.ihpartsamerica.com/store/NOS-455518C2.html
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Scoutboy74
Moderator
None of the vehicles depicted in this old thread are Scouts, so that's why the pans don't resemble what you have. Since yours is a Scout, you'd do well to run 1 extra quart above the full mark on your dipstick. IHC actually issued a service bulletin to their dealerships many years back advising service techs and owners of Scouts with the dual sump oil pans to run 1 qt over as a means of combating oil starvation during extended, upper rpm highway driving. The stock gauge provides only vague feedback. I recommend hooking up an aftermarket, wet OP gauge, at least temporarily so that you can get some numerical feedback to compare against your stock gauge. Just be careful with the vinyl tubing that comes with those gauges, as it is very delicate. Should you decide to make the gauge a permanent install, replacing the vinyl with copper tubing is a good idea.
These engines should have a minimum of 10 psi per thousand rpms of engine speed when hot. With a maximum engine speed of roughly 4000 rpms, 40 psi at that speed would be just barely adequate. Once you've gathered some actual data with both a cold and hot engine at idle and various road speeds, then you will have something concrete to offer for folks to weigh in on. Your kind of guessing without numbers.
These engines should have a minimum of 10 psi per thousand rpms of engine speed when hot. With a maximum engine speed of roughly 4000 rpms, 40 psi at that speed would be just barely adequate. Once you've gathered some actual data with both a cold and hot engine at idle and various road speeds, then you will have something concrete to offer for folks to weigh in on. Your kind of guessing without numbers.
Hard Rock Miner
New member
Will do on the OP gage and add another quart of oil. So, is this engine a 5.7 or 5.6? And what is the correct oil capacity for this engine? The reason I ask is because the dip stick doesn't look like a factory issue. I put a total of 6 qt.'s in it when I changed the oil after I purchased the Scout. Is there a part number for the correct dip stick for this engine?
Scoutboy74
Moderator
I believe the standard fill level with filter change is 6 qts for SV8 engines in light duty vehicles. I've seen both 5.6 and 5.7 listed for the 345. It must be somewhere in between. I've never really worried much about the metric measurement.
http://www.ihpartsamerica.com/store/SL338627C31.html
http://www.ihpartsamerica.com/store/SL338627C31.html
Hard Rock Miner
New member
Thanks for the help. Oh, do you think I should still add an extra qt / oil?
FDChappie
Well-known member
HRM, what you describe sounds like the classic spun cam bearing that many IH SV engines suffer from. The best way to confirm this is to pull the pan and look for chunks of cam bearing in the pan. This typically happens when starting an engine that has not run for a long time. The cam bearings are long way down the line in the IH oil system and take a long time to receive oil. Hence on a "dry" start the bearings tend to stick to the cam and spin. I've had this happen to 3 IH SV engines.
For some reason these engines seem to tolerate this condition for long periods of time and many thousands of miles, so it's probably not a critical must fix now condition.
For some reason these engines seem to tolerate this condition for long periods of time and many thousands of miles, so it's probably not a critical must fix now condition.
Hard Rock Miner
New member
Looks like I'm going to have to drop the pan then. I'll let you know what I see. 1975IH200: looks like 5.65L, dead center